Chat logs

[Sat Aug 29 2015]
<ndrst> can the highligh be on the speaker here?                                  [9:39]
<sachac> Okay, properly ended now
<sachac> samertm: Can we get a webcam on the room? =)                   [9:40]
<HowardTheGeek> Fun looking at a whiteboard.
<HowardTheGeek> ;-)
<sachac> Heh. We watchers see the jitsi with you in it                                                      [9:41]
<ballpointcarrot> all I see is "Loading video..." :(
<gnusosa> omw                                                           [9:42]
<ndrst> soo what is the real stream? gmail inboxes are a bit boring to look at (:
<sachac> ballpointcarrot: Darn. Do any of the other channels work for you?
<sachac> Gee, *blush*
<nasserash> THANK YOU SACHA!
<HowardTheGeek> Works for me ... ... just click the Live button.
<chrisrichards> thank you sachac
<HowardTheGeek> Yes, thanks sachac !
<ballpointcarrot> sachac: looks like it's an issue on my end with Twitch. The backup (and backup backup) hangouts worked fine for me (thanks for doing that btw. :) )                       [9:44]
<sachac> ballpointcarrot: Boo. =( There'll be recordings (assuming Murphy's Law doesn't strike again), so all is not lost.
<ndrst> great to see a code of conduct.
<ndrst> samertm: please try to repeat the questions (:                  [9:49]
<ballpointcarrot> hah, got it! when all else fails, run updates. :D
<HowardTheGeek> Hrm ... video is failing me. I will drop off that until later, and just enjoy the Twitch feed.
<HowardTheGeek> Going well!                                             [9:52]
<ovidnis> o-kay
<ballpointcarrot> looks good here
<HowardTheGeek> We just need the questions and audience comments to be repeated.
<HowardTheGeek> Or they must type them here. ;-)
<sachac> The question was about reading Emacs newsgroups
<sachac> and mailing lists
<ndrst> thank you sachac
<erik-stephens> //whois jabroney
<sachac> (and who's reading them, since it's hard to find out about meetups and stuff)
<jabroney> Sorry, trying out ERC…
<sachac> Question: Want to use cool new technologies that don't always quite work... Do we have some kind of a helpdesk hour?
<HowardTheGeek> Oooh... an Emacs Helpdesk. That sounds great!
<sachac> Ooooh. We could try that in the Emacs Hangouts.
<HowardTheGeek> Agreed.
<sachac> Also, #emacs on is awesome, Emacs StackExchange too.
<ndrst> sachac: at emacs-berlin we have a beginners guarantee
<sachac> ndrst: That's awesome!
<ndrst> see here:
<ndrst> and last time we had 3 newcomers, where two are now on emacs    [9:55]
<samertm> HowardTheGeek: connect again?
<HowardTheGeek> I'm here!
<HowardTheGeek> The video failed me, so I just dropped down to Twitch.
<ballpointcarrot> something like ?           [9:56]
<HowardTheGeek> Love the pair programming idea. I use it with ...
<sachac> Watching people code and step through their workflow is nice. =)
<elation> I love some of the livecoding example videos I have seen, but only when they actually narrate their decisions.
<samertm> HowardTheGeek: just kidding, I meant nicolas :P
<elation> The debugging techniques are really where it is at.
<sachac> It's great when you have someone on the line who you're explaining things to, because people forget the cool stuff they've already gotten the hang of and they don't realize it until you point it out
<samertm> HowardTheGeek: you can sign off :P                            [9:57]
<sachac> I find Google Hangouts on Air to be neat for that, since it handles the streaming/recording and other people can drop in as well. But there are other options, too. =)
<Algebr> people should see live coding of static and dynamic languages, then see how painful the latter is to debug
<edward`> In case anyone from Chicago is watching:
<HowardTheGeek> I think I will stop my video feed to keep the bandwidth low. [9:58]
<sachac> If you've got cool things to share, I'd be happy to help set up an Emacs Hangout around that.
<nasserash> samertm we can see you typing your emails.
<ballpointcarrot> you're showing full screen                            [9:59]
<HowardTheGeek> I am seeing his video.
<HowardTheGeek> Ooooh. This is getting better!                          [10:00]
<sachac> Okay, initiating backup recording just in case... =)
<chrisrichards> just sreen
<chrisrichards> if you are in here                                      [10:01]
<HowardTheGeek> I just noticed that. ;-)                                [10:02]
<sachac> By the way, samertm is going to check IRC for questions and relay them to both in-person and remote speakers, so feel free to ask along the way.                                                       [10:03]
<sachac> ASCII art diagrams! =D
<ballpointcarrot> awesome. Thanks sachac and samertm for your work getting everything set up!                                     [10:04]
<sachac> ballpointcarrot: Did you ever get your stuff sorted out, maybe on an alternate browser/OS/computer?
<ballpointcarrot> I got it, needed to update flashplayer                [10:05]
<sachac> Yay!
<samertm> sachac: reading through IRC now, I'll start mentioning IRC comments during the time between talks :D
<sachac> samertm: Cool. =) Come to think of it, it might be handy for you to have a keyboard macro that copies the current line to another buffer, so you can use that to quickly save comments to highlight while reading. ;)                                                    [10:08]
<sachac> I'm so glad the streaming and conferencing are both working excellently. =D                                                [10:09]
<samertm> Haha yeah I'm just browsing from my phone, so I'm writing them down. Also yeah :DD
<elation> As an aside,  I would be interested in hearing a talk on how to write good tests if anyone is expert. I have been meaning to start contributing to org-mode's test library, and a primer would be helpful.                                                      [10:10]
<sachac> samertm: Heh. Oh yeah, because your laptop is also projecting... Any chance you can scrounge up another laptop for monitoring IRC, so you can type quickly as needed?
<samertm> sachac: let me ask sufyan
<sachac> elation: Ooh, yeah, ert and related libraries are pretty neat. There's even one (undercover.el) that will report test coverage to a web-based service so you can display a badge on your project page on Github or similar services.                                    [10:11]
<elation> Thanks!
<sachac> Neat, mapping across the characters in a string.               [10:13]
<HowardTheGeek> Nice to have all the things I like about Clojure available in Emacs Lisp.
<sachac> I tend to use lists instead of vectors. I should probably read the Emacs Lisp manual to find out when I should use vectors instead... [10:15]
<mrvdb> Is there an agenda published somewhere?
<HowardTheGeek> <jinx>
<elation> ...
<mrvdb> thanks, did I miss it on the site? it's not obvious             [10:16]
<Algebr> lots of org-mode stuff
<samertm> mrvdb: no, we need to make it more obvious on the site :)     [10:17]
<Algebr> fwiw I just found an awesome thing for org-mode, exports to github markdown, ox-gfm
<sachac> mrvdb: Oh! Yeah, bit hidden - click on wiki, then follow the link to the schedule near the bottom on the page
<sachac> Algebr: Neat, thanks for sharing!                              [10:18]
<offby1> My question for Nicolas: what do you use seq.el for?
<jabroney> Question: are the copied values optimized at all (eg copy-on-write)?                                              [10:19]
<wasamasa> million dollar question: why does `package-initialize' on emacs 25 with seq.el installed result in a cryptic error?
<wasamasa> I'd assume it would merely set up `load-path', not actually run package-related code
<wasamasa> unless Someone™ did incorporate seq.el into it...            [10:21]
<wasamasa> I can't obtain a backtrace, just two "Error in package-activate-1: (void-variable seq)"                                         [10:22]
<samertm> wasamasa: we'll get to that at the end :)
<wasamasa> samertm: ok                                                  [10:23]
<sachac> That's interesting, he's using one .org per "slide", and a keyboard shortcut to move between them...
<solrize> sachac: he set up a mini lisp packag efor moving between them that he showed me (samer)                                          [10:24]
<HowardTheGeek> I use org-tree-slide for the same effect.
<mrvdb> my compliments for the livestream! it's very good. (unlike many other conferences i follow remotely). Not sure who to thank, but Thank you!
<HowardTheGeek> I agree!
<fds> Yeah, it's nice.
<sachac> And great moderation and audio-pickup too. Thanks, samertm!
<HowardTheGeek> Lot of work from samertm and crew.
<wasamasa> sachac: <XF86Back> and <XF86Forward> are good for buffer switching, too
<solrize> thanks mrvdb ! next year's will be icecast, and hopefully it'll be even better :) -samer
<wasamasa> sachac: provided you have something like the x200s keyboard with these keys
<samer> sachac: :)                                                      [10:25]
<sachac> I actually have those keys. I've never used them. I should definitely get the hang of using them for that or other purposes. =)
<siwica`> Is there any live coverage of emacsconf?
<sachac> siwica`: What do you mean by live? As in highlights?
<HowardTheGeek> Or this:                 [10:26]
<siwica`> like live video streaming
* ballpointcarrot points to the above links
<sachac> Oh, can an op add that to the /topic ?
<siwica`> sachac: cool, thank you!
<scottj> johnw: ^^                                                      [10:27]
<samertm> sachac: I don't have ops :P                                   [10:28]
<sachac> Yay offby1!
<samer> woo :)
<sachac> And the schedule, too.
<sachac> Hmm, I wonder if there's an alist-to-plist conversion function (and vice versa)                                                    [10:30]
<offby1> sachac, samer: in theory I've given you the ability to become ops
<sachac> Oh yeah, mm-decode.el has one.
<sachac> offby1: Thanks!
<offby1> ooh, it's like xpath!                                          [10:34]
<sachac> offby1: Great, thanks for updating the topic. =) It was taking me a while to remember how to op up on freenode... <laugh>
<ballpointcarrot> siren?
<nasserash> the cops!!
<catern> the conference is on fire!!!
<ovidnis> those sirens lol
<wasamasa> get the ircops                                               [10:35]
<samer> nasserash, catern, ovidnis, wasamasa on fire b/c of nicolas' awesome talk :)
<nasserash> haha indeed
<cestdiego> hello guys
<samer> hey cestdiego!                                                  [10:37]
<nasserash> *clap clap*                                                 [10:38]
* fds claps
<sachac> Neat! Can't wait to use these functions.                       [10:39]
<HowardTheGeek> Sounds like it is time to implement recur/loop ;-)      [10:40]
* cestdiego claps
<sachac> wasamasa had a question earlier
<sachac> <wasamasa> million dollar question: why does `package-initialize' on emacs 25 with seq.el installed result in a cryptic error?
<wasamasa> I'll try getting a backtrace again                           [10:41]
<sachac> Question was about map-let: What if the map I want to manipulate has keys that are not simple?
<sachac> err, symbols
<jaafar> one of those libraries was actually included in 25             [10:42]
<jaafar> was it seq?
<HowardTheGeek>  Live debugging!                                        [10:43]
<nasserash> +1 for live debugging XD
<samer> hahahaha
* HowardTheGeek claps again!                                            [10:44]
* sachac applauds
<HowardTheGeek> Time for coffee!
<mbork> hi there
<mbork> sorry I'm late, I've just set up my laptop                      [10:45]
<mbork> what should I do now?
<sachac> Livestream at
<mbork> thanks!
<sachac> mbork: Oh, for presenting? samer will send details, I think
<mbork> ok
<scottj> who is the host? (talking now)
<sachac> samer is currently speaking
<samer> talking about
<cestdiego> yes plz                                                     [10:48]
<pdvyas> Any recent vim converts. Would love to exchange notes / hacks / ideas
<pdvyas> *Any recent vim converts?
<sachac> pdvyas: Are you using evil-mode and/or spacemacs?
<wasamasa> so, what's with streaming, are only conference attenders and registered people allowed to do that spontaneously?
<kaushalmodi> @wasamasa Didn't get that.. I can watch it streaming on                            [10:50]
<samer> mbork: don't worry, we'll start at 11am
<mjcaisse> I'm watching at the same place
<scottj> kaushalmodi: he means presenting
<wasamasa> kaushalmodi: I mean, actually send the stream to twitch
<wasamasa> kaushalmodi: getting the stream from twitch is easy :D
<kaushalmodi> sorry realized that as soon as I posted that
<sachac> wasamasa: Anyone can watch. There's a schedule of talks, but samer can probably squeeze in other people if there's tons of time by using jitsi.
<samer> pdvyas, wrote down your question
<scottj> kaushalmodi: it was very unclear :)
<sachac> Ooooh, impromptu lightning talk by Harry Schwartz
<samer> wasamasa, sachac yup :)
* wasamasa has still slides from last week's froscon                    [10:51]
<kaushalmodi> I love engine mode
<catern> can there be remote lightning talks? :)
<wasamasa> ^
* akkad ponders if he's missing much
<samer> catern, wasamasa we can have remote lightning talks
<samer> I'll write you both down and ping you when we have time
<catern> no no
<catern> I was just asking
<samer> haha k :) I'll just write down wasamasa                         [10:52]
<catern> but wasamasa has a good talk :)
* wasamasa goes to find his mic
<samer> kaushalmodi, wrote down your comment
<sachac> wasamasa: Either samer or I can help you check your audio/video with jitsi over the lunch break, so that everything's ready to go later. =)
<wasamasa> pdvyas: I doubt three years count as recent                  [10:54]
<cestdiego> Tell him to try Spacemacs! :P
<ballpointcarrot> I bounce back and forth between emacs and vim a lot
<wasamasa> I cannot believe it's been that long since it's hit 1.0
<nasserash> yay for spacemacs!!                                         [10:55]
<wasamasa> sachac: in case this works out, about when would such a slot be?
<wasamasa> sachac: it's almost 8PM here
<catern> wow
<sachac> Could be in between talks, if people end early                 [10:56]
<mbork> wasamasa: where are you, geographically?
<HowardTheGeek> And this is the problem with a world wide virtual conference.
<wasamasa> mbork: germany
<mbork> a, a neighbor
<wasamasa> I'd not have any problem with streaming my screen contents in the middle of the night
<samer> wasamasa, we can put you right after marcin if ther'es time
<sachac> HowardTheGeek: ... you mean the *awesomeness* of a world-wide virtual conference =D                                                  [10:57]
<sachac> Great, no audio feedback over here =D
<offby1> bpalmer: are you here?  If so, where?  I'm fifth row, rightmost end
<scottj> schedule formatting got messed up recently I think             [10:58]
<catern> turn up the volume on his stream?
<wasamasa> samer: is that another one-hour slot?
<HowardTheGeek> Yes.
<wasamasa> ok, that should be enough preparation time                   [10:59]
<sachac> wasamasa: Hmm, can you do a lightning-talk type summary or update?
<HowardTheGeek> Spacemacs is great since Emacs' largest advantage is not its keybindings.
<sachac> wasamasa: The slot after this is lunch, and the slot after that is a workshop of sorts...
<wasamasa> sachac: I've held a 45 minute talk titled "Emacs as my Canvas" last weekend which did explain how graphics in emacs work
<wasamasa> sachac: and did later show off three of my own game-like demos [11:00]
<parsnip> cool, i've been curious how org exporters work.
<tali713> wasamasa: do you have a video of such?
<wasamasa> tali713: not yet
<sachac> wasamasa: Oooh. If there are no extra full slots for today, I'd be happy to set up an Emacs Hangout with you so that we can hear it in its full length and you can take questions.
<samer> wasamasa, there's a slot way later tonight
<wasamasa> tali713: so I thought I'd get at least a sneak preview if I'd do it for this one
<samer> also if you record it with sachac, we can put it on the site
<sachac> wasamasa: That way, you don't have to stay up really late or wake up really early. =)
<wasamasa> sachac: cool, that would work for me as well                 [11:01]
<samer> if people post questions as they come up, I'll be collecting htem
<sachac> wasamasa: What do you think of doing a 5-minute teaser after mbork's talk? =)
<wasamasa> sachac: that would be good practice for figuring out this streaming business                                                     [11:02]
<sachac> wasamasa: Also, what times would generally work for you in terms of presenting online? My schedule is pretty flexible, so just tell me when works for you.
<cestdiego> I love that people are just using org to present their `slides`
<HowardTheGeek> Marcin is using org-tree-slide for displaying his org-mode file ... in case, you were wondering.                   [11:03]
<wasamasa> cestdiego: except me :P
<cestdiego> wasamasa: as long as it's not prezi
<wasamasa> cestdiego: way too obsessed over typography for that
<ballpointcarrot> Have to head out - will try to hop on this afternoon.
<wasamasa> cestdiego: no, just an org-beamer export to pdf
<tali713> I'm surprised they aren't using beamer export.
<cestdiego> are beamer slides that good? D:
<pdvyas> sachac: I use evil-mode. Swaroop just suggested using spacemacs, I'll try to move to it
<wasamasa> sachac: well, I should have the entire sunday free
<HowardTheGeek> I use org-tree-slide with some better typography and hide the mode line ... no one notices that I do my demonstrations in Emacs.                                                  [11:04]
<wasamasa> sachac: so I'd look for an overlap between yours and mine and decide on that I guess
<sachac> wasamasa: Maybe your evening, my afternoon? Or would you prefer afternoon (my morning)?
<imalison> Has anyone who was not a VIM user started using evil mode?   [11:05]
<wasamasa> sachac: I'd tend to the former then
<imalison> or would an evil mode user be willing to give a talk about migrating to evil mode?
<edward`> Sure
<sachac> wasamasa: <laugh> I'm still waiting for to come up, since I don't want to get the timezones messed up again...
<pdvyas> Awesome!!                                                      [11:06]
<tali713> imalison: I've tried a few times, but got frustrated by trying to use it for a single buffer and finding undo-tree got dragged in whether I wanted it or not, and a few other irritations, maybe these have been fixed.
<imalison> tali713: I'm kind of in the same spot. I expect a certain amount of slowdown, but it's been pretty unbearable for me
<catern> for emacs presentations, I like having all my slides in one file, separated by form feeds (^L) then using narrow-to-page repeatedly to show one page at a time and move to the next                   [11:07]
<sachac> wasamasa: Pfft. My time now is 2:07 PM, so that makes you probably 6 hours ahead. What do you think about 3 PM your time, 9 AM mine? [11:08]
<sachac> or 4 PM your time, 10 AM mine - that might be a little better for viewers...
<samer> sachac, how's the audio on the stream?                          [11:10]
<sachac> samer: It's understandable. =) There's a bit of clipping from the audio, but I think that's source audio quality.                [11:11]
<sachac> samer: I just remembered I haven't e-mailed anyone about . You have a list of people interested in the virtual stream for the Emacs Conf, right? Could you send them a note at noon?
<samer> sachac, I sent out an email to everyone coming to EmacsConf, I don't have a list of people that are interested in the virtual conference specifically                                                    [11:12]
<scottj> did you guys enable archiving on twitch? not sure if video is saved automatically
<sachac> It's interesting that most of these are pass-through functions...
<sachac> samer: Awesome, that works. =D
<tali713> it sounds like the microphone is a tincan in a glass of water, but understandable. :)
<samer> sachac, can you post it to /r/emacs? :D
<sachac> Oh yeah! Good point.
<samer> scottj, we enabled archiving, yup                               [11:13]
<samer> tali713, same over here, but it works :)
<sachac> Posted on reddit                                               [11:18]
<wasamasa> sachac: that would work as well                              [11:19]
<wasamasa> sachac: so, fine by me
<samer> sachac, thanks!
<scottj> samer: ahh, was the change in schedule formatting (from table to headings) intentional?
<elation> Speaking of which his org-item-get... , I have been building up my ownn set of org-mode utilities functions. Does anyone have links to their favorite set of org utility funtions
<sachac> wasamasa: Great, we'll go with 4 PM your time. Are you okay with Google Hangout with the recording to be streamed/posted on YouTube, or do I need to use an alternative?
<sachac> elation: Ooh, I'd love to see yours. Do you have them in a config somewhere on the Net?                                          [11:20]
<samer> scottj, yes, because it was more convenient for me :P
<elation> I just started moving them from my dotfile to its own file. [11:21]
<samer> elation, I'll ask that after the talk
<sachac> Wow, it's interesting seeing all the little conversion functions. [11:22]
<wasamasa> sachac: hangouts sounds ok                                   [11:23]
<samer> yeah!
<wasamasa> sachac: do I need to prepare anything, like, registering an account?
<elation> I have versions of those all over my .dotfile and I have started tracking repeated code when I dive into the core org codebase so that I can start making more readable functions
<parsnip> can i search for emacsconf to watch later this week? [11:24]
<imalison> This is a totally random question but does anyone know if there is a built in org-mode function that allows you to easily pull out information from the LOGBOOK drawer                          [11:25]
<sachac> wasamasa: Mm, yeah, you'd need a Google account, and there'll be a slight delay when you install the plugin. I'll send you a join link ~15min before the start so you have time to settle in. Would you prefer that I e-mail you the join link or just find you on IRC?
<wasamasa> sachac: why not a /query ?
<scottj> parsnip: it should be here         [11:26]
<sachac> wasamasa: Sure, I can /msg or /query you shortly before the hangout. =)
<wasamasa> sachac: ok, what about the five minute preview?
<sachac> parsnip: Note that the recordings will be available only for a week or so, but I'm sure samer and team will post more permanent videos after.
<wasamasa> sachac: because it sure looks like marcin's talk is over
<samer> sachac, that's the plan ,yeah                                   [11:27]
<samer> wasamasa, we can get you on after we're done with questions :)
<parsnip> okay, thanks scottj and sachac
<sachac> wasamasa: Awesome! Now that they're doing the Q&A, I'll set up a quick jitsi so that we can doublecheck your audio/video before you join the presenting jitsi
<elation> If a blog post, getting it on worg or emacs wiki would be helpful! [11:30]
<sachac> samer: Power just went out at HowardTheGeek's house            [11:31]
<elation> +1 for a stub file! Especially with heavy commenting about best practices and gotchas.
<samer> sachac, ack, I'll send him a text haha
<samer> sachac, can you email me his number? <REMOVED>
<sachac> samer: BTW, wasamasa's having audio problems
<sachac> samer: Howard hasn't sent it to me yet. He shared it during the planning meeting last week - do you still have your notes from that? [11:35]
<sachac> samer: wasamasa's audio works now
<samer> I didn't bring the notebook with it sachac                      [11:36]
<samer> cool, let's have him after the questions
<samer> *them
<nasserash> thanks mbork!
<sachac> samer: I've sent him the URL to join you
<samer> sachac: great!
<sachac> samer: I'll relay any info I get from Howard. He says he'll let us know when the power comes back.                                [11:37]
<samer> sachac, thanks!
<sachac> <laugh> We have to get samer on Org Mode...
<kaushalmodi> haha
<sachac> imalison: I often narrow to subtree and then just re-search-forward
<sachac> imalison: What are you specifically interested in extracting from your logbook drawer? =)
<imalison> yeah like programatically                                    [11:40]
<sachac> Programmatically, it could look like (save-restriction (save-excursion (when (re-search-forward ":LOGBOOK:" nil t) ...))) [11:41]
<imalison> sachac: yeah but I want it all actually parsed, so like separated into fields for previous state, next state, note, timestamp etc
<imalison> it wouldn't be hard to write at all, but it just struck me as weird that there is nothing built in to do it
<sachac> Hah, my little utilities are scattered throughout my config
<elation> Simplifying functions for making elisp coding around org-mode easier
<sachac> I'm bad at packaging things. =)
<sachac> Oooooooh, animated graphs?!                                    [11:43]
<slashfoo> on a pdf of all things
<Algebr> of course, here's a blog post that says how to do it
<elation>             [11:45]
<slashfoo> whoever can do a lightning talk with pointers for a newbie on emacs on the first steps on customizing your .emacs* that'd be great (and resources to look/read)
<sachac> imalison: org-habit searches for - State ... and parses that, so it doesn't look like there's a magic built-in function that does all that parsing (or at least, not that johnw knew about)          [11:46]
<sachac> samer: wasamasa's lightning talk, maybe? He's in jitsi already
<imalison> sachac: yeah I've scoured the org code base pretty deeply, so thats what I figured, just wanted to double check that I wasn't missing something
<sachac> (... can someone poke samer in person? =) )
<samer> cool, we can go with them                                       [11:47]
<sachac> imalison: That would make a great thing to share. Go for it!
<catern> woohoo
<catern> wasamasa's talk
<sachac> wasamasa: Can you make your text larger?
<elation> imalison: I would be absolutely grateful for some state parsing util functions.
<kaushalmodi> @wasamasa: also reducing frame size will help
<sachac> elation: What about state parsing? =)
<imalison> elation: it seems like there should maybe be like an org-util package or something
<sachac> elation: I usually pick it out of (org-heading-components)     [11:49]
<samer> sachac: does the text need to be larger?
<offby1> wasamasa: !!! Love it!  Can't believe I've never seen something like that before.
<elation> sachac: Sorry, I meant logbook state
<sachac> samer: Looks fine now =)
<imalison> sachac: no timestamping that way
<imalison> elation: good to know that someone else cares about this too. Think I'll probably write it this weekend                          [11:50]
<sachac> elation: Oh yeah, same as imalison. =) It would be neat to get that too. imalison: Go for it! =D
<jaafar> wasamasa: we cannot see tetris                                 [11:51]
<sachac> We can see it playing nicely. =)                               [11:52]
<sachac> Hehehe... "text" editor, right.
<Sigma> wasamasa: very nice :)
<mbork> Wow. I'd love to see Mario;-).
<sachac> Hey, time to hook it up with autotetris...
* slashfoo is now expecting the upcoming movie in emacs by wasamasa     [11:53]
<slashfoo> samer: my req for lightning talk up ^
* jrm claps
<wasamasa> slashfoo: actually, I did present keyboardcat a year ago at froscon [11:55]
<sachac> So cool! =)
<egh> retris is not on melpa :(
<wasamasa> slashfoo: by loading up spliced frames and playing these back at 24fps
<sachac> Hey, what would y'all like to do while the in-person folks are eating lunch?
<wasamasa> slashfoo: that was the most my machine could take, any higher resolutions led to stuttering
<wasamasa> egh: it's far from ready yet
<slashfoo> wasamasa: ha! that's crazy talk! that's pretty cool          [11:56]
<nasserash> awesoem wasamasa *claps*
<mbork> @sacha: I have actually some work to do;-)
<wasamasa> egh: I've had ideas, like implementing features not found in that game yet
<gnusosa> elation: look at org-read-property-name and org-remove-empty-drawer-at, and make a mashup of both
<wasamasa> egh: like, ghosts, holding pieces, theming, etc.
<sachac> Should I spin up another Hangout? (Heck, maybe wasamasa can do that extended talk now, even?)
<egh> wasamasa: awesome :) the gameplay on M-x tetris leaves much to be desired
<wasamasa> slashfoo: I could imagine doing something like an oldschool demo though
<wasamasa> slashfoo: the svg type is a lot more efficient to generate than xpm, so you could do procedural graphics if you're clever enough [11:57]
<gnusosa> elation: and org-read-property-value
<sachac> wasamasa, samer: While people are waiting for the food, and for us not-getting-food people, what do you think about wasamasa doing the extended 45-minute-ish talk in the background?
<nasserash> samer! update your antergos lol :D
<sachac> Alternatively, I can host a separate get-together so that we don't impinge on the casual networking that's going on over there. =)
<sachac> Although food, yeah, food is good. I've forgotten to eat lunch too and it's way past lunch time here! <laugh>                     [11:58]
<wasamasa> sachac: I'd leave it for tomorrow then
<wasamasa> sachac: found some things to fix up in the original slides
<sachac> wasamasa: Sure! That totally works.
<sachac> I'm going to eat lunch then. =)                                [12:00]
<samer> sachac: that would be cool :)                                   [12:02]
<samer> what's the most convenient way to do that?
<tali713> wasamasa: that looked pretty slick, I assume you'll do a longer talk at a later time?
<sachac> samer: We'll do the Hangout with wasamasa tomorrow as originally scheduled. I'm grabbing a quick lunch (just microwaved some congee, yay!), so after that, I can either host a jitsi for anyone else on the channel who wants to hang out for a brief time, or we can just wait for the talks to resume.
<wasamasa> tali713: I did actually hold a longer talk last weekend
<holomorph> wasamasa: is that talk up somewhere?
<wasamasa> tali713: so I figured I could do it again tomorrow with sachac
<wasamasa> holomorph: not yet
<tali713> wasamasa: excellent.                                          [12:04]
<sachac> tali713: Yeah, we've got a Google Hangout scheduled for 10 AM Toronto time (4 PM Frankfurt time) tomorrow. I'll post the details once I've set the Hangout up.
<wasamasa> holomorph: the uploader did ask me for some screenshots to overlay, but other than that there's been radio silence
<holomorph> wasamasa: ah
<wasamasa> sachac: IIRC the hangouts are of a more informal interview with some demonstrations thrown in?
* wasamasa is sort of sad to not have seen the reactions                [12:05]
<wasamasa> holomorph: maybe I should prod them again, considering it's weekend [12:06]
<elation>  gnusosa: to make sure I am following you. Use the drawer function to identify all drawers, and then in a narrowed region get information about the various properties within it, e.g. the state items.
<holomorph> wasamasa: may as well. i read the slides and am interested in watching
<sachac> wasamasa: We can make it whatever you want - presentation, plus questions from me and whoever shows up. =)                     [12:08]
<sachac> Streaming info for wasamasa's talk will be posted at (times converted to your local timezone)
<wasamasa> slides are up at btw
<jabroney> Anyone using emacs for ipython or jupyter notebooks?  Seems like things are bit fluid - I'm looking for insight on what works best. [12:11]
<wasamasa> sachac: I'd find an alternative form to a traditional talk interesting
<Algebr> I have a good ipython + emacs setup                            [12:12]
<wasamasa> sachac: but maybe I'm just confusing this with other interviews you've held
<nasserash> jabroney, have you tried ein.el?
<wasamasa> there's ein2 btw
<zeroDivisible> Algebr: would you mind sharing your ipython / emacs setup? Mine is quite hacky
<nasserash> jabroney,     [12:13]
<jabroney> nasserash: Yes, but looks to be stagnant.  I'm reading this is the new-new:
<nasserash> this is ein
<Algebr> zeroDivisible: Sure, I'm in front right row
<sachac> wasamasa: Sure, we can totally make it a casual chat. =) Depending on whether other people show up and have more specific questions, I might ask you stuff about how you got into Emacs, how you figured out how to tinker with graphics in it, cool stuff in your config, etc. (Mostly because I'm curious about how people learn things and the interesting things they have in their workflows! =) )
<jabroney> wasamasa: You have a link handy?  And thx for your talk!  Inspiring me to write backgammon as a way to learn emacs lisp better.  [12:14]
<howardabrams> An update from my end: Found a laptop with a slow cell connection. I'm installing chrome (for the requires it), and copying my presentation over. Hopefully, I'll be ready by 4:00 ...
<zeroDivisible> Algebr: I'd love to be there, but I'm just lurking from Dublin, Ireland :)
<wasamasa> jabroney:
<jabroney> Looks like millejoh's fork is ein2
<wasamasa> that's right
<gnusosa> elation: right, but you will have to write your own parser of the elements of the logbook
<wasamasa> the above link provides a bit more background
<wasamasa> sachac: sounds good
<wasamasa> sachac: I'll have something for dinner
<choki> lol emacsconf on twitch? i thought it is gaming only xD         [12:16]
<choki> when is emacsconf in austria? :D
<tali713> choki: what's the difference?  hacking emacs is just like playing a game.                                                         [12:17]
<sachac> choki: When you organize one! ;)
<Algebr> zeroDivisible: look at [12:18]
<Algebr> and
<choki> how many people are there?                                      [12:19]
<choki> sounds a lot!
<zeroDivisible> Algebr: thanks! Will do.
<choki> sachac: i'll talk to n0v0id first :D
<choki> man i wish to be there now! :'(                                 [12:24]
<mbork> elation: funny, I'm just coding something for which I           [12:27]
<mbork> would need to get LOGBOOK items...
<choki> is RMS there? :D
<choki> emacsconf without RMS? O_o
<pdvyas> choki: No, other wise we'll have to hide our macbooks
<choki> xD
<choki> is it already at the end? or are there any vids/slides?         [12:31]
<nasserash> choki,
<nasserash> there's more to come :)
<choki> great stuff in there! "hear from an emacs beginner" and "how to start a emacs meetup" wow                                             [12:33]
<imalison`> shosti`:
<kaushalmodi> How will the emacs workshop work?                         [12:36]
<kaushalmodi> Will the people present at the venue in SF be presenting, like 5-10 mins per person?
<tali713> wasamasa: a while back I had the thought of implementing turtle graphics via bitmap or svg in emacs, as a pedagogical tool, I made a few steps towards it and got distracted by shinier stuff. (like implementing loop-recur), would you be interested in something like that?
<sachac> tali713: Oooh, that would be nice. =) If there's a chance you can make it to the Hangout with wasamasa tomorrow (, it would be great to have your questions in the conversation!
<choki_> this is the first emacsconf right?
<sachac> choki_: There was one in 2013, and rumour has it that there was a small one sometime before that.                                [12:43]
<sachac> choki_: Videos from the 2013 one are at
<samertm> choki: I'm really excited for "hear from an emacs beginner", gopar is awesome :)
<samertm> sachac: thanks for covering IRC
<samertm> we'll probably push the start of the .emacs session because the food just got here
<choki> wow cool im on air! :D
<sachac> samertm: There was a question about what the .emacs session will be like - will it be streamed?                                    [12:47]
<nasserash> samertm, update your antergos! you got like +200 updates pending lol
<samertm> sachac: we'll try to stream it by getting people to use jitsi (or the hacky way would be to just point my computer at the TV)   [12:48]
<samertm> whatever ends up being easiest
<samertm> nasserash: ;) updating is for suckers
<wasamasa> tali713: surely
<sachac> samertm: Play by play narration works too. ;)
<samertm> sachac: haha cool                                             [12:49]
<wasamasa> tali713: after retris I'd pick up svg again and svg.el for generating these procedurally
<wasamasa> tali713: and turtle fits in with that
<parsnip> is a emacs beginner next?
<parsnip> define "beginner" :)                                          [12:50]
<choki> im proud beginner xD
<samertm> parsnip: there's a mini lightning talks/workshop session next
<samertm> emacs beginners are the lifeblood of emacs :) and aren't we all beginners really (cause of how complex emacs is haha)
<tali713> sachac: I wish I were at a presentation level this year, maybe next year.
<tali713> samertm: yup, we're all newbs. ;)
<sachac> tali713: <grin> Presenting doesn't have to be intimidating. We're all newbs learning from each other. You can practice in an Emacs Hangout if you want. =)                                                [12:51]
<choki> im scared emacs will someday be written in javascript ^^
* howardabrams laughs.                                                  [12:52]
<howardabrams> On the previous topic ... I've been using Emacs for around 25 years, and I still feel like a beginner.                 [12:53]
<choki> samertm: stop idling! :D
<choki> rasmus: \o/                                                     [12:55]
<wasamasa> tali713: you don't happen to have any intricate graphics programming knowledge or know how the demo sceners do their fancy effects, do you?                                             [12:56]
<sachac> So, what kind of food are we missing out on? <grin>            [12:57]
<sachac> Ooh, can you get some kind of physical headcount? I think there were ~80 people in person in 2013.
<howardabrams> Sounds like vegan food ... I'm really wishing I could be there in person.                                               [12:59]
<tali713> wasamasa: well, no, but I have a friend who is into that sort of thing, I assume you've done the "munching squares" demo?
<wasamasa> tali713: I've only seen code for it in a forth-like language
<wasamasa> tali713: I'm afraid I can't reuse all the 3d shader knowledge, so it will be oldschool or vectorish or pseudo-3d stuff instead
<tali713> wasamasa: sure, is there a particular effect you have in mind?  I only mentioned munching squares because it is extremely easy to write in any language and looks impressive for a single line of code.                                                         [13:01]
<wasamasa> tali713: no, only some videos
<howardabrams> Sounds like we are deep into the .emacs social hour.     [13:04]
<sachac> howardabrams: Not the workshop yet, just general lunch chatting [13:05]
<samertm> we're deep in the felafel lunch, you shoulda come
<samertm> this is solrize                                               [13:06]
<tali713> wasamasa: you could do a spinning cube fairly easily. iirc there are no cases of partial face occlusion, so it's just a bit of math for perspective, and not displaying the "back" side of a face.
<howardabrams> I wish I could! Argh.
<wasamasa> tali713: this ideally:
<wasamasa> tali713: alternatively
<howardabrams> What was the link to the pair programming discussion? I can't seem to find it.
<wasamasa> tali713: oh and minus music, getting that in sync with the rest will be hell
<tali713> wasamasa: that mostly looks like reflection skew and keystone operations composed over assorted gradient functions.  simple math for most of it.
<momerath> you might look at this (by an old coworker):              [13:09]
<wasamasa> tali713: I'd sure hope so :D
<samertm> We'll start the .emacs workshop at 1:20                       [13:10]
<sachac> Okay! See you in 15 minutes
<sachac> (actually, 10)
<choki> why
<tali713> wasamasa: like traveling stripes for example could be (psuedocode): (let ((pixel-color (list (mod x t) 50 50))))
<tali713> wasamasa: you could also cheat and use (defined-colors) as your stripes and simply translate (t mod x) to an index in the color list.
<wasamasa> tali713: this is elisp, we must cheat                        [13:13]
<wasamasa> the delay between the stream and our actions is disconcerting
<sachac> samer: HowardTheGeek is running out of laptop power, oh no
<wasamasa> momerath: thanks!
<sachac> Oh, I see, I've been using the wrong nick                      [13:16]
<tali713> wasamasa: oh, demo effects are all about cheating, so yeah. start with fancy ways of slicing defined-colors. if you wanted a keystone on the mottom half you could say (let (x (if (< y threshold) x (+ width/2 (* (+ topscew (- y threshold)) (- x width/2))))) ...) and so on.                                                           [13:17]
<wasamasa> tali713: ah, so this just mirrors at a certain point
<wasamasa> caleidoscope effects would probably be fun as well
<tali713> reflections are easy, rotations are trickier.                 [13:19]
<tali713> wasamasa: so assuming 0 is center (translate if it isn't) all sorts of operations that are quite simple can look great.  like concentric circles is just sampling by distance from origin.             [13:21]
<kaushalmodi> It's time for the .emacs Workshop!                        [13:22]
<wasamasa> tali713: mhh                                                 [13:23]
<wasamasa> tali713: is there any specific resource you've learned this from?
<wasamasa> tali713: I'd prefer studying it instead of occupying the channel :D
<tali713> wasamasa: watching my friends in the demo scene, but I'll try to find some good basic resources for geometric transformations. [13:24]
<wasamasa> tali713: I've kind of skimped out on this in school, trigonometry, too
<tali713> this is a bit terse, but useful           [13:26]
<tali713> wasamasa: is also useful, if you want to use polar graphs for the cool flowers they can make.  (choose a time dependent parameter and sample by r.
<amitp> polar is fun. my personal logo is made with a polar graph
<kaushalmodi> I recently learnt using hi-lock comments to specify file-specific faces; it's pretty cool.
<andrew39> what now dee5
<kaushalmodi> You can specify how to font lock the outshine headers in a file [13:29]
<cestdiego> wat
<ryouma> for a second i thought you meant like changing default face, comment face
<kaushalmodi> outshine package allows you to have org mode like headings in a non-org-mode file                                         [13:30]
<Algebr> Any gdb wizards here at conf?
<kaushalmodi> ryouma: You can specify file-specific faces this way: [13:31]
<cestdiego> what is the state of using emacs for react development? anyone around that has some tips or an example setup?
<rasmus> kaushalmodi: you can also just use orgstruct. it's part of emacs
<kaushalmodi> rasmus: I tried that first before trying outshine but I missed the org mode bindings for promoting/demoting headings, single letter bindings like in org mode, etc                     [13:32]
<kaushalmodi> outshine has all that
<kaushalmodi> This is what I meant by "single letter bindings":                 [13:33]
<wasamasa> samertm: you reckon emacs-devel will be fast enough to tune in the stream?
<parsnip> outshine is great, i just use it for folding on ;;(;*) and movement, de/promoting
<sachac> kaushalmodi: Neat, thanks!                                     [13:34]
<parsnip> my evolution through emacs init file systems ->
<rasmus> kaushalmodi: if you look at orgstruct-setup it should support org-demote and org-promote, though i don't know if it's bound to a key.
<parsnip> init.el -> -> init-*.el -> .emacs -> -> .emacs
<kaushalmodi> rasmus: I had tried it before I started using outshine. But I will give it a shot once again                            [13:35]
<ryouma> i want some folding mode for elisp that does not require any manual notation, deals with top level comments, and somehow is roughly like org cycling (inb4 i did not get the org cycling type thing for elisp to work)
<sachac> use-package is neat. =)
<kaushalmodi> Also I have an elisp snippet that auto-creates "Contents" like this using the outshine headers: [13:36]
<rasmus> ryouma: orgstruct-mode and outline?
<cestdiego> use-package is love, use-package is life
<ryouma> rasmus: for elisp
<ryouma> rasmus: to fold code
<amitp> hi arthurgleckler and bpalmer
<rasmus> ryouma: orgstruct-mode and outline?
<ryouma> rasmus: idgi
<rasmus> I have the following in my init
<rasmus> ;; Local Variables:
<rasmus> ;; outline-regexp: ";;\\*+\\|\\`"
<rasmus> ;; orgstruct-heading-prefix-regexp: ";;\\*+\\|\\`"
<rasmus> ;; eval: (when after-init-time (orgstruct-mode) (org-global-cycle 3))
<rasmus> ;; End:
<rasmus> gives you more or less what you want, no?                      [13:37]
<ryouma> i thought orgstruct was for lists
<sachac> samertm: I use use-package with :ensure t =)
<rasmus> to me it's just a way to deal with the terrible default binding of outline-mode...
<parsnip> ryouma:
<cestdiego> rasmus:  so do this function load the entire org-mode package?
<cestdiego> s/do/doe
<cestdiego> s
<rasmus> yes!
<rasmus> cestdiego: yes
<rasmus> it's defined in org.el
<cestdiego> so no way to lazy load org then? ;__;
<rasmus> what does that mean in this context?
<sachac> samertm: I use my/ as the prefix of my functions now, so that people don't have to rename the functions when they copy them over to their config. =)                                                     [13:40]
<kaushalmodi> rasmus: I found this old emacs.SE question I posted that details why orgstruct didn't work for me:
<cestdiego> ehmm as in using `use-package` you can defer the load of packages until they are first use, so startup times decrease a lot
<cestdiego> sachac: what if I name my functions with `my/` as well? D:  [13:41]
<cestdiego> sachac: I'd have to rename yours to `sacha's/` even if it's an invalid name :P
<sachac> cestdiego: One hopes you sorta read things before copying and pasting them into your permanent config. =)
<rasmus> kaushalmodi: i never had a use for this, but in a 2 sec test outline-{demote,promote} works as expected.  you can also use orgstruct-hijacker-outline-demote                              [13:42]
<sachac> cestdiego: But yeah, namespaces, weird!
<cestdiego> sachac: there is this though! [13:43]
<cestdiego> haven't tried it yet
<wasamasa> there's several of these
<kaushalmodi> rasmus: I'll try it out again                             [13:45]
<rasmus> cestdiego: i don't know use-package, but if some hook calls orgstruct it'll only get loaded once the hook is run, no?  since, orgstruct depends on a bunch of org functions it must load org...
<rasmus> kaushalmodi: as you prefer.
<cestdiego> rasmus: thank you for the code snippet :) I'll try it now
<slashfoo> does anyone here run emacs inside tmux on a mac?
<sachac> Ooh, if you're binding custom keys, bind-key is a nice package. [13:49]
<sachac> It'll let you describe-personal-keybindings too.
<parsnip> slashfoo: keybinding problem ;)                               [13:50]
<parsnip> *?
<sachac> One of my favourite .emacs tricks is to have a keyboard shortcut for jumping to my Emacs config, since I like being able to quickly edit it.
<slashfoo> parsnip: no, my cursor doesn't show for some reason; keybinding work fine                                                    [13:51]
<parsnip> sachac: C-c i opens new frame with .emacs, C-u C-c i opens in current window.
<kaushalmodi> slashfoo: I have used emacs -nw in tmux on xterm but on Linux (RHEL), not max
<elation> I use a similar process for my .dotfiles.  But, I use the ability to push files into predefined places to allow me to keep everything in a version controlled repo and easily push out across my device to the proper places.
<parsnip> slashfoo: works fine here, emacs -q ?
<kaushalmodi> sachac: I do the same for my init.el and few other frequently accessed files                                            [13:52]
<jrm> sachac: I do the same with registers: C-x r j i
<parsnip> kaushalmodi: i had built up a list of such and had a loop make the functions and bindings.
* cestdiego raising his hand
<sachac> jrm: Yeah, I do mine with registers as well. =)
<parsnip> but now i use bookmakrs with helm for most of my favorite files. [13:53]
<kaushalmodi> parsnip: I use a hydra
<slashfoo> parsnip: let me try
<sachac> I use hh and jj for some of my keychord-related hydras.        [13:54]
<jrm> sachac, parsnip I would like to have the same for buffers, e.g.,  C-x r j s to go the *scratch*
<cestdiego> How can I use key-chord to simulate another key press?
<cestdiego> as in, pressing `jj` to simulate I pressed `SPC` (spacemacs user`
<slashfoo> parsnip: ah, erm my init.el is currently empty, but no, doesn't show, I've searched on google, find the question being asked, but no answer (?)
<wasamasa> cestdiego: use "SPC" instead of a quoted command
<sachac> jrm: You might consider using hydra or defining a keymap (but hydra is nicer) that has interactive functions to do whatever you want.
<wasamasa> cestdiego: that's interpreted as keyboard macro, so careful with the context                                                  [13:55]
<parsnip> jrm: probably you can make a bookmark function ?
<sachac> samertm: Combining keychord with hydra is awesome, because you get hydra prompting and repeatable commands. =)
<cestdiego> wasamasa: ehmmm... what do you mean? :O                     [13:56]
<jrm> sachac: cool.  I've heard hydra is in the revolutionary category like ace-jump.
<slashfoo> parsnip: what version of emacs are you using, and which distro? I'm using
<parsnip> slashfoo: what is M-x version ? which terminal do you use? anythin crazy in tmux.conf.
<jrm> parsnip: prolly
<elation> Oh, wow. Can we tag this lightning-talk as a emacs-pinkie first aid?
<slashfoo> parsnip: GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS apple-appkit-1265.21) of 2015-04-10 on builder10-9.p\
<wasamasa> cestdiego: key-chord.el does take commands, right?
<parsnip> slashfoo: i have exact same thing :)                          [13:57]
<sachac> You can modify keychord to care about the order of the keys.
<ASeveredHead> slashfoo: `set-option -g mode-mouse on` set?
<parsnip> slashfoo: i use
<slashfoo> parsnip: iterm2 here
<sachac> I have code in my config to fix key-chord's behaviour because I wanted to be able to use ht without screwing up th.
<parsnip> slashfoo: mabe try ?
<cestdiego> wasamasa: yeah
<wasamasa> one day I'll write a key-chord replacement that does care about order                                                        [13:58]
<wasamasa> cestdiego: use a string instead of the command
<kaushalmodi> sachac: try out
<parsnip> slashfoo: maybe comment out tmux.conf?
<cestdiego> hmmm
<cestdiego> Hmmmmmm
<wasamasa> and does not screw up input methods
<kaushalmodi> key-seq.el allows distinguishing between the order of the keychord chars
<wasamasa> and allows for more than two keys
<sachac> kaushalmodi: Neat! =)
* cestdiego is trying
<slashfoo> ASeveredHead: niet
<elation> I know I have seen this package before, can anyone guide me to the package that tracks how often a command/keybinding is used over time? This seems like a huge time-saver, but I would want to strategically implement these as I go.                        [13:59]
<sachac> elation: keyfreq?
<slashfoo> parsnip: checking now
<cestdiego> masamasa: so: key-chord-define-global "jj" " "
<choki> if u hit "dk" or "sl" in the mini buffer only shows "key-chords-"?
<sachac> choki: Because he had another keymap connected to it, instead of a command                                                        [14:00]
<elation> sachac: thanks, I'll have to implement something to track the gobs of functions that I only ever type in using M-x and helm, but this is a great start.
<cestdiego> wasamasa: so: (key-chord-define-global "jj" " " )
<wasamasa> cestdiego: yes, that should do it
<sachac> elation: I think it only tracks commands through pre-command-hook, so it'll catch everything (shortcut or M-x).
<sachac> Might not know how you called it, though.
<sachac> Haven't looked into it in depth.                               [14:02]
<elation> Oh, ok cool.
<wasamasa> the sirens are at it again                                   [14:04]
<wasamasa> must be after the lazies                                     [14:05]
<cestdiego> like we got used to the sirens :D
<gnusosa> You get used to it here in SF
<gnusosa> \                                                             [14:06]
<wasamasa> .___.
<amitp> Sirens on Alcatraz luring sailors there?
<gnusosa> You hear them almost all day.
<elation> Is there a emacs-to-common-programming-tongue glossary that exists anywhere? All of these are in the manual, but is there like a solid glossary?                                                     [14:08]
<gnusosa> That's a good question.
<mudphone> elation: I feel like that's part of a larger problem of no central place to get authoritive info.                               [14:09]
<sachac> Sounds like a good page to make on, at least.
<mudphone> "problem" :)
<dolmantle> ?
<gnusosa> I found this:
<elation> Is anyone throwing any of this on emacswiki?
<elation> dolmantle: gnusosa  HAHAH, of course... *sigh* should have googled the manual                                                    [14:10]
<sachac> Hah, naturally.
<elation> C-J
<wasamasa> or just open it in emacs, hit m and enter glossary
<gnusosa> (search-emacs-glossary)
<wasamasa> the emacs info manual I mean
<samertm> Jeff's use-package:
<wasamasa> regarding the current talk, I believe the symptoms gopar describes are part of a larger problem                                 [14:12]
<mudphone> A simplified example of using use-package would make a great minimal starter kit.
<wasamasa> if you ask RMS about emacs, it's more a tool for him that enabled the GNU revolution and less of something to care and groom   [14:13]
<elation> The guide that really got me started was
<wasamasa> if the community gets by, that's fine for him
<elation> I would recommend it to anyone who wants to start building their skills.
<wasamasa> he was rather surprised that the majority of packages is outside GNU ELPA
<wasamasa> and was immediately against it because it was outside his control [14:14]
<dolmantle> Would a Khan Academy "Emacs tutorial" be helpful? I think anyone can make one...
<sachac> Mmm... I wonder what the typical profile is for people who try out Emacs and stick with it. I can see how students might be overwhelmed if they're trying to learn Emacs and do coursework at the same time, and how more experienced programmers (who've been burned by IDE differences between languages, maybe) might be more motivated to find something that works long-term. Also, things like Org and ESS pull in a lot of people.
<Algebr> I am not convinced by this...its like saying "my OS doesn't have xyz, why doesn't it come with xyz""
<sachac> dolmantle: That would be neat! Go for it. =)
<cestdiego> sachac: the typical profile is pretty damm awesome people
<sachac> I hear from people who pick it up because they have a coworker who's crazy about it, too.                                           [14:15]
<amitp> So the best thing for adoption is for emacs to make people crazy.
<kaushalmodi> I picked up at my internship
<asjackson> sachac: I started using Emacs because I switched from Mac OS using Sublime to Linux, and missed the global GNU readline key bindings, like C-e and C-a.
<kaushalmodi> now I am the only person using it at my job
<wasamasa> I started using it because vim and emacs were mentioned in a manual I had to revamp in an internship
<Algebr> I started emacs because i read that "serious" programmers use either emacs/vim                                                      [14:16]
<mbork> Gopar: I was also on my own when I started;-)
<wasamasa> so I did vim first, later emacs when I wasn't satisfied
<ASeveredHead> sachac: As a Smalltalk developer, someone pointed out that all Emacs really is is a self-discoverable Lisp VM
<cestdiego> sachac: I was introduced to it by a friend of mine, he was just converting from vim to emacs and was like: holy baby gee-zeus Emacs is awesome. And so we were hacking emacs every weekend.
<mbork> Though I started with reading like more than 50% of the manual... [14:17]
<gnusosa> Yeah, the first time I heard about Emacs was at the How-To Hacker by ESR
<lentils_> I was choosing between vim and emacs, and my boss said "emacs is crazy, it's so powerful" and I wanted to be more like him.
<sachac> cestdiego: <laugh> Sounds like fun. Imagine having an Emacs config hackathon, like a geek retreat...
<mbork> I was choosing vim/emacs, and vim didn't have the tutorial then
<samertm> also if I miss a question, ping me again!                     [14:18]
<catern> I'd just heard about emacs for a long time as a teenager, reading many things about it on the web. when I first switched to Linux and started programming I used vim, but then later, knowing it was inevitable, switched to emacs
<cestdiego> sachac: most of the time it went like : "dude check out what I found out this week, you can make org export code!"...and he was like: "Dude emacs can manage ipython notebooks!"
<cestdiego> it's fun to have an emacs pal                               [14:19]
<Algebr> cestdiego: yea! It totally is
<wasamasa> the things I'd give for having one
<sachac> cestdiego: I know! =D I hear people end up in friendly competitions to show off cool Emacs config things to each other.
<wasamasa> at least I'm no longer the only one at work using it
<Algebr> wasamasa: we are your emacs pals :)
<slashfoo> parsnip, ASeveredHead: fixed, upgraded to tmux from git, no change on .tmux* or .emacs*
<emish> hello! I'd like to give a lightning talk about our club at school, we had one for 3 years
<cestdiego> wasamasa: I'll be your emacs pal
<emish> i think it would be good after the current talk
<sachac> cestdiego: That's one of the reasons why I really like #emacs and I help organize Emacs Hangouts. Emacs pals are awesome.
<wasamasa> cestdiego: I meant in person
<cestdiego> wasamasa: let's make a package that let's emacs pals share config snippets
<egh`> Being stubborn definitely helps when using emacs                 [14:20]
<Algebr> stupidly stubborn
<mudphone> Gopar Emacs videos ^
<sachac> and I hope he'll follow through with those podcast plans! =)
<cestdiego> wasamasa: I'm in person :)                                  [14:21]
<sachac> Good point from audience: video can show what's cool and then cover how to get it working.
<sachac> (ideally with a link to someplace where you can just copy the config) [14:22]
<danielma`> Does anyone have a link to the .emacs config with the keychord setup?
<asjackson> I really enjoyed Magnar Sveen's "Emacs Rocks" series. I was introduced to a bunch of cool things from those videos
* offby1 has created ##emacs-beginners and made gopar God               [14:23]
<sachac> Emacs Rocks is neat. =)
<wasamasa> tl;dr: emacs is underwhelming regarding community involvement for political reasons
<mbork> There's also Mickey Petersen's "Mastering Emacs" blog and book - both are excellent
<asjackson> He seem's to have stopped them those? Not seen any new ones for quite a while
<sachac> Hmm, maybe we should look into tweaking the culture of #emacs so it's more newbie-friendly, too...
<mbork> Also, Planet Emacsen!
<egh`> +1
<kaushalmodi> +1 for mickeyp's Mastering Emacs book
<gnusosa> I'm using Magnar's Configuration right now :D
<wasamasa> sachac: it is actually, the problem is rather that it's offtopic most of the time
<Algebr> Oh emacs rocks videos are incredible
<elation> Or even a babel heavy file that goes along with it.
<asjackson> Is Magnar here? Can we convince him to make more? :P        [14:24]
<gnusosa> is Mastering Emacs book in a hardcover version?
<wasamasa> yes
<kaushalmodi> gnusosa: no, it is ebook only
<gnusosa> oh man :(
<sachac> wasamasa: <laugh> Yeah, there's that. I wonder how we can make it clearer that asking questions is okay any time, although it might get ignored if no one knows. might be nice.
<sachac> And what's up with that double hash, eh?
<sachac> =)
<wasamasa> inofficial freenode channels                                 [14:25]
<sachac> I see...
<wilbeibi> And Xah's Emacs Blog
<wasamasa> they have a set of loosely enforced rules
<emish> i wish there was a hardcover mastering emacs book too
<jlf> wasamasa: (defun psychoanalyze-pinhead () "Zippy goes to the analyst." (interactive) (cookie-doctor yow-file)) ... i'm only a perl one-liner and trivial defun away from having a fully functional implementation of psychoanalyze-homie!
<wasamasa> jlf: hoho
<wilbeibi> And
<kaushalmodi> gnusosa: emish: the pdf book is very convenient to read in emacs itself. Helpful packages: pdf-tools and interleave        [14:26]
<elation> Turns out the glossary in the manual was awesome
<sachac> Ah, good, there's already a glossary in the wiki, neat.
<cestdiego> sachac: it would be awesome if the bot from #emacs checked if a similar question has been answered in stackexchange and supplied the link of the search
<kaushalmodi> interleave pkg helps take notes in org associated to pdf pages
<cestdiego> if noone responds to it
<elation> Should have RTFM'd....
<offby1> jlf: ave
<tali713> emacsrocks rocks!
<wasamasa> sachac: SE is pretty good for tricky questions
<wasamasa> sachac: for common stuff, it's hit or miss, depends on whether it has been asked before                                        [14:27]
<howardabrams> The Mastering Emacs book is great!
<catern> I'm not sure what we're asking questions about, just came back, but I have some Emacs workshops and talks that I am running in the coming months. When I have run vim workshops in a former life, I give my students vim challenges to work on as a group and people have said they enjoyed them a lot. ...
<catern> ... I'm not sure what similar thing I can do for Emacs... doing golf doesn't seem as natural, so if anyone has any ideas...
<wasamasa> let them program stuff
<slashfoo> samertm, sachac: I think I know about a talk I can give during the lightning storm                                              [14:28]
<sachac> is still in the semi-early days, so yeah, don't completely give up on it yet. And crosspost to stackoverflow if needed, as suggested by Mitch in the audience
<catern> wasamasa: but these are total beginners
<sachac> slashfoo: Yay!
<wasamasa> catern: or maybe let them compose stuff to keyboard macros   [14:29]
<mbork> Pragmatic Emacs is more suited for beginners, too
<arthurgleckler> Does anyone know whether this channel is being logged?  I found <>, but don't see a log there.  (IRC novice.)
<tali713> I learned a lot when I was a brand new newb just by lurking #emacs.
<samertm> arthurgleckler: I don't think it's being logged, but I don't mind if someone wants to log it
<catern> Let me be clear, these workshops are a captive audience of people completely new to Emacs and possibly even programming in a Unix programming environment
<wasamasa> arthurgleckler: freenode leaves it to channels to log
<catern> they are part of a required class for freshlings :)
<sachac> Hmm, we didn't have a logging notice in the /topic, so I'm not sure if it's kosher to post the logs after. Probably there'll be a post with relevant links later, maybe? Any objections to posting a public log?
<arthurgleckler> Thanks.  That was my guess.
<catern> So I really want to present them with enjoyable things that draw them in...
<kaushalmodi> no objections.. I would like to get the full log myself   [14:31]
<mbork> I'd like to have a log, too
<samertm> sachac: logs of #emacsconf are totally awesome
<wasamasa> catern: so, let them play the built-in games?
<catern> wasamasa: but that's just a distraction from what you actually use Emacs for
<catern> what they will, I mean
<sachac> samertm: Cool. You've been in and out, so I'll send you my copy and we can figure out what to do with it after.
<cestdiego> have anyone really tried the "namespace" packages?
<howardabrams> Have you seen the Emacs Golf video series?               [14:33]
<catern> er, not quite...
<tali713> there is a vimgolf implementation for emacs. ninja'd
<wasamasa> cestdiego: here's the only example I'm aware of using one:
<catern> I'm more looking for suggestions on Emacs challenges... :)
<wasamasa> cestdiego: incidentally by the same author
<mudphone> Gopar, want to move to Honolulu?
<wasamasa> catern: is there anything wrong with figuring out keyboard macros for solving common problems?                                 [14:34]
<rasmus> s
<mbork> Gopar: nice talk, thx!
<catern> wasamasa: well, I guess that might be okay, but I don't really use keyboard macros much myself
<wasamasa> catern: like, transforming "lastname, firstname" to "firstname lastname" for all lines
<cestdiego> so many `names-autoload.el`'s
<akkad> use it
<wasamasa> cestdiego: funny how many people just check all of their dotemacs in                                                           [14:35]
<catern> wasamasa: hmm, well, maybe... that doesn't seem to really take advantage of the unique awesomeness of emacs
<sachac> wasamasa: It's awesome. Sometimes people point out things I could improve in my config. =)                                       [14:36]
<sachac> Wow, they meet weekly? Neat.
<wasamasa> sachac: yeah, I just find it sort of surprising they don't even leave out the .elc files
<akkad> elnode + thinatra
<sachac> ... thinatra? <laugh> sinatra with lisp? Totally makes sense.  [14:37]
<wasamasa> wat
<akkad> not seen much work lately I don't think
<wasamasa> and jsonip.el
<akkad> he had 4 emacs running in tmux serving
<tali713> catern: frankly, it's hard to take advantage of the best that emacs has to offer without touching elisp.  (my opinion)
<wasamasa> is that like catnip, but for webdevelopers?
<sachac> If you want to get impressive meeting notes, org-timer-start and org-timer-item ;)                                              [14:38]
<cestdiego> I would've went for the pizza as well :3
<sachac> I prefer Emacs GUI over emacs -nw, and I encourage newbies to start with it too. =)                                                [14:39]
* akkad never understood the allure of terminals over the gui
<gnusosa> yeah I was telling a guy here, that I can't live without GUI Emacs
<tali713> sachac: absolutely agreed.
<catern> tali713: I kind of agree
<catern> sachac: indeed, absolutely
<tali713> akkad: for a small hadful of users its the best choice given their work environment, for the rest "terminal hipsters" :)
<catern> unfortunately my newbies are working on a shell server
<mbork> sachac: I used that to time my talk while rehearsing;-)
<sachac> mbork: That's neat!                                            [14:40]
<catern> they need to work over ssh... I tell them to install it locally, but I don't know how many do it
<momerath> tramp has never worked well enough for me; is that what people still use (mostly) to edit remote files?
<akkad> sshfs mode is what I use
<gnusosa> oh siren
<mbork> I use tramp from time to time
<akkad> usual SF sirens downtown
<catern> momerath: I use TRAMP all the time and it is awesome
<sachac> Oh, magit is another fun thing to show people.
<gnusosa> eshell + TRAMP is where it's at                               [14:41]
<tali713> tramp has been getting better, but yes, it may or may not work great for you depending on what all else is involved.
<jabroney> Tramp was too painful (latency) until ssh ControlMaster
<akkad> eshell is nice for grep/tramp etc
<mbork> sachac: probably the most jaw-dropping thing in Emacs is Calc
<samertm> +1 for eshell
<sachac> mbork: Oh yeah! It even does symbolic manipulation, boggle.
<mbork> sachac: and you can access it from Elisp very easily, that's also cool!
<edward`> magit is definitely what got people in my office to try emacs [14:43]
<akkad> how do you tramp from eshell?
<sachac> mbork: Would you like to do a short show-off and intro video at some point? =)
<mbork> about Calc? why not?
<mbork> I'm not proficient at it, but I use it on a daily basis
<mbork> (mostly basic stuff, though - no symbolic integration etc.)
<howardabrams> I've also got a blurb about Tramp in my demo at 4:00
<sachac> mbork: Totally cool, all you need to do is help people go from 0 to 1 and see how it might help them with their day to day work too. =) [14:44]
<sachac> mbork: I tend to use M-: or C-x C-e a lot for bits of math in Emacs Lisp.
<Algebr> Can I do a demo of emacs and awesome support for C and OCaml
<samertm> howardabrams: so you're on at 5pm (there's a break at 4pm)
<sachac> howardabrams: You're back! =D                                  [14:45]
* akkad wishes a channel of this sort existed outside the social club of #emacs
<howardabrams> Ah ... no problem. I guess I have an old schedule. ;-)
<mbork> In my setup, I press C-z c and the formula before point gets magically replaced by its computed result;-)
<sachac> Algebr: Sounds great! samertm might be able to fit in a lightning talk later, or we can set up a different time.
<catern> tali713: my current plan (since I actually have two workshops, one a week after the first, with the same group) is to spend my first session explaining all the help and self-documentation etc. in Emacs (as well as some terminology and basic editing), and the second one introducing elisp.
<sachac> It does timestamps.
<sachac> Relative to the start of your meeting.
<sachac> And then you can adjust the timestamps all in one go.
<wasamasa> catern: were these workshops the reason you've asked for preliminary slides?                                          [14:46]
<catern> wasamasa: yes, that's what I was talking about in #emacs
<tali713> catern: well okay then, that's an outstanding salespitch, if you can find good examples to demo elisp with.
<sachac> Oh, I clock in and clock out for stuff like that.
<sachac> (for tasks)
<wasamasa> "Hello students, here's something totally bonkers you can do in Emacs"
<gnusosa> if you want to know more about timing and scheduling, see Norang's document:
<cestdiego> what is this org-timer D:                                   [14:47]
<sachac> There's an actual org-pomodoro, by the way
<offby1> but of course there is :)
<akkad> org-org-export-as-pomodoro-to-pomororo ?
<gnusosa> cestdiego:
<sachac> catern: Yay workshops!
<catern> Question For Emacs Club: Is there an introduction "practical" class for CS majors at your university? Because a few years ago some students were able to introduce an informal one at CMU, and now it's actually a required class for all incoming CS freshlings. (And that's what I'm teaching two ...
<catern> ... Emacs workshops for :D)
<catern> So, y'know, you could try to lobby for that.                   [14:48]
<catern> or start it
<catern> sachac: yay!
<sachac> ... and if you're here from a non-CS background, don't worry, you might be able to convince people in social sciences / electronic music / etc. to check out Emacs too!
<mbork> Re: teaching early. My daughter is 5.5yo, and seeing me typing wanted to learn some letters.
<mbork> Guess what application I fired to teach her letters. ;-)
<sachac> mbork: Bwahaha... typing-of-emacs                              [14:53]
<sachac> (maybe later on)
<catern> i've always thought that Emacs would be a great first programming environment
<catern> way better than something like an IDE or Python
<mbork> catern: yes, because you don
<akkad> catern agreed, on par with dr racket
<mbork> don't have to code all I/O - you have it for free already
<catern> akkad: I guess Dr. Racket must be written in Racket? Is it modifiable at runtime?                                                    [14:54]
<akkad> not like emacs, afaik
<catern> yeah, that's why I think it would be good :)                   [14:55]
<mbork> and not only I/O, also UI
<mbork> wow, beamer presentation!                                       [14:56]
<wasamasa> about time :P                                                [14:57]
<mbork> have you seen my org-beamer theme;-)?
<Caine> org-beamer is great :)
<cestdiego> makes me feel I'm at school again ;_;
<catern> beamer presentation is boring at this convention :) only moderately nerdy, compared to presentations from Emacs :)
<mbork> [14:58]
<wasamasa> maybe I should start an emacs meetup at my sity, too
<cestdiego> wasamasa: you should! :)
<wasamasa> *city, damnit
<mbork> (there's a broken link, sorry)
<wasamasa> cestdiego: there is already one for clojure
<mbork> it's a beamer theme that makes the presentation look like it's in Emacs;-)
<cestdiego> wasamasa: definitely some emacs users there
<wasamasa> cestdiego: it's where I decided to learn elisp as my first dialect
<cestdiego> mbork: plz let me see eeeet
<cestdiego> wasamasa: that's nice. I used to go to a js group, that was also python-group and emacs-group back in Peru                   [14:59]
<cestdiego> different days for meetings, but actually the same people
<mbork> cestdiego: it should work now                                   [15:01]
<mbork> ;-)
<wasamasa> cestdiego: I also learned about CHICKEN there and met my current employer                                                     [15:02]
<mudphone> org-timer is so good! thanks sachac !
<mudphone> v
<cestdiego> mbork: haha that's awesome! :)
<mbork> cestdiego: glad you like it, feel free to use it;-)             [15:03]
<sachac> mudphone: Glad you like it! I found out about it by reading the manual.
<mudphone> remembering to keep timestamps in my notes is one of my pain points
<cestdiego> mbork: gonna try to make a darker variant
<cestdiego> and maybe put the spacemacs modeline into it :P
<cestdiego> just for le lolz
<mudphone> and having the freedom to adjust the timestamps later is great [15:04]
<mbork> cestdiego: just change the colortheme, that should be enough
<sachac> mudphone: If it's just an occasional timestamp, C-u C-c ! RET adds the current time.
<sachac> ... We don't see the posture!
<sachac> mrph.
<sachac> =|
<sachac> Please post an ASCII art diagram. ;)
<mudphone> sachac: wow, thanks
<cestdiego> wasamasa: so you have to get sponsors
<wasamasa> cestdiego: sounds hard
<cestdiego> an ad on craiglists should do it
<samertm> haha
<wasamasa> didn't know costs
<akkad> in SF most startups tend to be very friendly to meetups. helps with their recruiting efforts                                        [15:09]
<cestdiego> wasamasa: I guess you can just start having friends at your house, no need to record it
<sachac> Hey, this and jitsi recording thing might be a usable workaround for not having a proper video camera and video editing person. =)
<danielma`> b
<samertm> sachac: it's working surprisingly well :P                     [15:10]
<akkad> much nicer quality than the feed in 2013 that I recorded
<sachac> (Or Google Hangout on Air if you're not ideologically opposed to Google)
<samertm> akkad: didn't realize you helped out with emacsconf 2013 :) we'll probably need help editing the videos after the fact, would you be interested in helping?
<akkad> no, I just had a UK connection with good bw                     [15:11]
<sachac> akkad: Yeah, the team checked out *lots* of options to figure out something that would work with people's screens (instead of having a recording of the TV)
<akkad> to pull the public stream
<sachac> samertm: I'd be happy to help you convert and edit.
<samertm> sachac: thanks :D
<rasmus> Marcin, that's a pretty nice beamer theme.  you should post it on ML. [15:12]
<cestdiego> we used to pull all-nighters at uni in a lab, xD they didn't said anything but we were friend with the guard... it was Peru as well... :'( oh Peru                                         [15:13]
<cestdiego> all nighters meetups are awesome :)
<wasamasa> I could ask my college about it, but eh
<mbork> @rasmus: thanks, I'll do it
<wasamasa> considering the lack of interest from my classmates in programming...
<cestdiego> wasamasa: what you study?                                   [15:14]
<akkad> branding... tmux+vim seems to get a lot of meetups here. and Emux could compete
<wasamasa> cestdiego: information systems
<cestdiego> hmmm ohwell
<samertm> akkad: is "here" the UK?                                      [15:15]
<sachac> samertm: (Disclaimer: not professional video production <laugh>) [15:16]
<samertm> that's fine haha :)
<cestdiego> if one is downloading then why webm? D:                     [15:17]
<wasamasa> wat
<wasamasa> a stuffed bear head holding the mic?
<catern> Man
<cestdiego> I guess you had to..*bear* with it
<samertm> wasamasa: it was a plaster bear head
<catern> This meetup talk is so familiar :) same with the Emacs Club talk [15:18]
* wasamasa punches cestdiego 
<samertm> haha
<choki> lol u dont need pizza and all the other expensive stuff to create a meetup xD
<sachac> catern: The grown-up version <laugh>
* cestdiego still thinks it was worth it
<choki> just create one, if there are no people, pizza won't help
<catern> What he just said, "You'll have to give a lot of talks yourselves"... I feel that tons
<cestdiego> choki: pizza always helps                                   [15:19]
<sachac> I like the way EmacsNYC has a list of talk ideas               [15:20]
<akkad> samertm: SF                                                     [15:21]
<cmack> wow. yah I'd like to see a talk on many of those.
<cestdiego> that guide is pretty awesome
<akkad> nice
<Caine> lots of good advice in this talk                                [15:22]
<mbork> wat?  I shaved today!
<sachac> Heh
<Caine>'s been years for me :p
<cmack> In the short lived Nashville emacs group we had 50% non-developers, one lawyer and one scientist doing a lot of data munging / text processing. We didn't last long enough to consider their use case, but I thought it would be a nice challenge                          [15:23]
<sachac> Neat!
<mbork> wow, hacker schools need a guide on how to be a human being...
<cestdiego> well actually
<akkad> mbork: :P                                                       [15:24]
<samertm> I went to hacker school/recurse center, the social rules were my favorite part and the part I learned the most from
<sachac> I think it's nice that that's spelled out
<mudphone> samertm: is there an example online
<mudphone> ?
<akkad> "get off my lawn"
<samertm> mudphone: yup, [15:25]
<egh`> cmack: that's awesome, I wonder how you attracted so many non-developers
<tali713> "we're all newbs here"  hell that's good for almost anything in programming.
<mudphone> samertm: thank you
<samertm> cuz there things I used to do without realizing that they're hurtful
<akkad> that's like the biggest rule of being > 30 at startups
<samertm> they're*
<egh`> Being an old emacs user can be a disadvantage, because you get stuck in the old ways
<cmack> egh`: the first meetup I was surprised too... but very pleasantly. But in truth the short answer was org-mode heh
<egh`> cmack: emacs's secret weapon!
<akkad> lost audio                                                      [15:27]
<tali713> akkad: as a >30, I try to avoid "get off my lawn" moments.  unless in humor.
<sachac> I still hear audio over here
<sanityinc> Me too
<akkad> k, will refresh
<cmack> egh`: so I've heard... I just haven't had the epiphany yet myself... C-RETURN and M-RETURN is as far as I've gotten -- useful, but not "weapon-level" yet                                              [15:28]
<mbork> this is good point: I came to Emacs for TeX, actually.
<cmack> yes, I think that was the lawyer's second interest.
<akkad> importing a giant csv into org-mode and then sorting by rows, and moving columns left and right visually made my team ponder the magic [15:30]
<rasmus> yeah, auctex got me interested in emacs as well.
<mbork> will the slides be available?                                   [15:32]
<sachac> mbork: Highly likely =)
<akkad> more effecient than tyler derden
<akkad> Question: What is the conversion rate, or repeat visitors
<wasamasa> enjoy the silence
<sachac> Oh, audio cut out for me
<Caine> for me too                                                      [15:34]
<sachac> samertm: We lost audio
<akkad> I got audio
<cmack> going well here...
<wasamasa> guess the bear head tripped over the cable
<sanityinc> Okay here too.
<akkad> reload
<sachac> Oh, okay, maybe it's just us
<sachac> Reloading
<akkad> page
<akkad> yeah some twitch issue
<samertm> sachac: we have a separate in-person video, so we'll have audio even if that's the case
<sachac> So nice to have quick confirmation! =D
<akkad> "commercial time"
<samertm> :D                                                            [15:35]
<sanityinc> Should have used M-x video-conference-mode
<samertm> questions from irc?
<akkad> samertm: yes
<akkad> <akkad> Question: What is the conversion rate, or repeat visitors [19:33]
<sachac> Yeah, audio's back after a page refresh
<samertm> ty
<sachac> I really like the fact that the videos are posted.             [15:36]
<akkad> curious how well their retention of users, and acquisition of new users that become regulars.                                     [15:37]
<cestdiego> <cestdiego> Question: When was the last time someone presented in a ppt? :P                                                   [15:38]
<samertm> got your questions, akkad, cestdiego
<akkad> k
<samertm> :)
<sachac> samertm: If there's time, maybe you can briefly describe the twitch + jitsi setup you've got here so that people know it might be an option for their meetups... =)                                        [15:39]
<cestdiego> :) I hope the answer is.."nevah" unless they exorted to ppt with org
<samertm> I can do that sachac
<wasamasa> I just put my mic into an empty thermos bottle
<akkad> can twitch do more than just live?                              [15:41]
<akkad> e.g. scroll back
<sachac> akkad: You can tell it to archive the recordings. Free recordings are only available for a week or so, but you can download the files and upload them elsewhere. (Theoretically... =) )
<akkad> nic
<akkad> nice
<cmack> Question: now that you're moving to a new emacs group, do you think you'll be tempted to point to a previous emacs talk video rather than "re-talk" it?                                                   [15:42]
<cestdiego> go hackerschool :)                                          [15:43]
<wasamasa> hm, lists less outrageous prices on their website [15:44]
<wasamasa> like, starting from 3$ a month
<akkad> "say diego"
<wasamasa> "c'est diego"
<cestdiego> c'est diego
<akkad> and mine is pronounced "not xah lee"
<wasamasa> lol                                                          [15:45]
<wasamasa> mine just doesn't have any sharp s in it
<sachac> One of the challenges is last-minute setup with someone else's computer. The neat thing about is that the plugin seems to work reasonably well (as long as the other person has Chrome or Chromium), and that can get the person's desktop shared with someone else's computer that *is* reliably set up for recording/streaming/etc. So that's the neat part. =)
<wasamasa> I wonder whether hangouts works similiarly well
<akkad> one problem with hangouts is some one won't mute their mic, and others fight with them to mute/unmute.
<sachac> akkad: You can mute someone, but they can unmute themselves. Same on jitsi. Should be manageable, though.                           [15:49]
<akkad> right...
<akkad> thus the back and forth
<sachac> (You can always not allow random people in)
<catern> floobits!!!!
<sachac> The question was about remote pairing, I think
<catern> Floobits is an awesome collaborative text editing service!
<catern> And it supports Emacs!
<catern> It works over the network!                                     [15:52]
<catern> It's basically Google Docs, for text editors!
<catern> Floobits is awesome!
<sachac> catern: If it works as well as you say, it deserves all those exclamation marks! =D
<tali713> +1 floobits, quite nice for collaborative editing.
<catern> I hope someone says it aloud :)
<cmack> hmm... tmux + emacsclient while I work in emacs gui... intriguing. [15:53]
<howardabrams> The tmate approach, while nice, has some issues inside emacs.
<catern> Also floobits is on IRC in #floobits :)
<tali713> catern: I hope someone shows off the floobits emacs integration.
<mbork> Does that mean a 65 minutes break?                              [15:54]
<rrix> yes
<mbork> 'cause I might want to get some sleep
<mbork> (it's almost 1pm here)
<howardabrams> Don't blame you.
<sachac> mbork: Yup
<howardabrams> Of course, my talk will certainly help you sleep.
<mbork> sachac: when could I show some Calc intro?
<Caine> Are these videos going up online later?                         [15:55]
<samertm> Caine: yup!
<samertm> mbork: yup, we come back at 5pm PST
<samertm> /PDT
<samertm> might do some lightning talks at 4:30
<mbork> howardabrams: I'm afraid I might fall asleep before I've got a chance
<mbork> to listen to your talk
<mbork> ;)
<sachac> Good time for a break. I can have dinner. =)
<mbork> ok, so I'll make some food for myself
<mbork> it's a bit creepy here
<mbork> I'm at my university
<akkad> can someone get a picture of the audience?
<mbork> there are like two more people in the building (the guards) ;-) [15:57]
<sachac> mbork: If you need to go home and sleep, that's cool. We can record the Calc thing a different time. =)
<chrisfreeman> howardabrams: It appears you've resolved your power/wifi needs :-)
<mbork> sachac: no, no, I'm prepared;-)
<samertm> akkad: we have some pictures! we'll post them later
<sachac> mbork: Wow, that's dedication!
<mbork> I got some sleep in the afternoon
<akkad> samertm: ty
<mbork> I was mostly joking;-)
<mbork> the funniest thing that I had to arrange a special "license"
<mbork> from my dean
<mbork> because normally noone is allowed to be here after 22pm;-)
<sachac> mbork: Wow.                                                    [15:59]
<cmack> which timezone?
<mbork> cmack: CEST                                                     [16:00]
<akkad> Berkeley Standard Time
<Caine> mbork, same here :)
<cmack> hah.. so the 1pm was a typo earlier... I was confused
<Caine> yeah, it's 1 am                                                 [16:01]
<cestdiego> omg floobits is awesome! :) but last time I tried it on emacs it was too laggy :(
<akkad> oh?
<jrm> Are there any test floobit workspaces to give it a go?            [16:04]
<catern> best for #floobits I think
<momerath> are either of the last two talks in person?                  [16:06]
<sachac> momerath: Yes, both were                                       [16:07]
<sachac> Oh, you mean the next two talks?
<momerath> yeah :)
<sachac> One of them's remote and one of them's in person, I think.
<cestdiego> wasamasa: are you lightTalking?
<sachac> samertm: What do you think about switching the twitch back to a view of #emacsconf while waiting?                                   [16:10]
<cmack> Hmm the floobits plugin isn't completely smooth. I'm getting odd highlighting issues                                             [16:15]
<cmack> I made a public workspace at but you'll still have to have your own account to connect, it appears.     [16:18]
<dolmantle> b
<ryouma> ,floobits                                                      [16:32]
<jrm> Thanks cmack. ...trying it out.
<cmack> jrm: well I saw you there for a sec
<jrm> cmack: I'm trying to change what I'm sharing                      [16:39]
<jrm> It started to try and share a bunch of large backup packages
<jrm> It somehow cached the location                                    [16:40]
<tered> is the conference over?
<cmack> tered: on long break
<dolmantle> nope, break time.
<cmack> 25 more minutes?                                                [16:41]
<tered> awesome!
<dolmantle> resume in 20min
<chrisfreeman> Next talk scheduled at 5pm PDT
<tered> i'm just joining in
<tered> is there an agenda?
<cmack> tered: yes, link in the topic of this channel
<tered> beginner questions - is there a place i can watch the previous sessions?                                                       [16:43]
<cmack> tered: they'll be posted online later, but it'll take time for editing
<tered> thanks cmack!                                                   [16:44]
<tered> I wish I'd been there for the .emacs workshop!
<tered> I just started using emacs last week
<cmack> nice!                                                           [16:45]
<mbork> tered: congrats!
<tered> haha thanks
<Caine> how is the experience so far tered?                             [16:46]
<tered> loving it!
<tered> i'm using spacemacs though.
<tered> I've been using vim for the past 6 months, and I spent a week last month trying out evil mode and getting everything to work the way i wanted it to.                                                   [16:47]
<tered> but kept going back to vim
<tered> Now, with spacemacs.. oh boy. I don't think I'll ever use anything else                                                            [16:48]
<Caine> cool
<Caine> I am learning a bit of vim myself
<Caine> I basically erased insert mode bindings and made it work like emacs-mode
<python476> what people do at an emacsconf ? discuss all the other IDEs/editors
<python476> #sting
<tered> hahaa
<Caine> that way I get the best of both worlds
<tered> @caine nice
<tered> i'm slowing moving to using some emacs commands as well
<Caine> python476, we're all just passionate about plain text :p        [16:50]
<tered> like <C-a> and <C-e> is much better than hitting 0 or $
<python476> Caine: no love for sexp ?                                   [16:51]
<Caine> sexp are great
<tered> @caine, were you there for the .emacs workshop and  the hearing from beginners talk?
<akkad> was floobit good?
<cmack> akkad: it's ok from what I've tested... but for some reason there is odd highlighting that happens when I put in carriage returns    [16:52]
<Caine> I missed the workshop
<akkad> wanted a better pairing mode for moby/goby                      [16:53]
<jrm> cmack: Apparently I'm connected now, but I'm not sure things are as they should be.  I just see a *Floobits* buffer, but also get "error in process filter: End of file during parsing" in *Messages*
<cmack> akkad: it has a specific FLOOBITS-CLEAR-HIGHTLIGHTS fn so there must be some reason for it
<cmack> jrm: hmm. Is there any way of choosing the file? [16:54]
<jrm> cmack: Didn't see anything.
<cmack> jrm: I see a M-x floobits-join-workspace ...                    [16:55]
<akkad> this background chatter would be great gaming track material
<cmack> jrm:  Ican see you're joined on the webclient
<tered> noobs ftw?                                                      [16:56]
<akkad> we can
<jrm> cmack: webclient  Oh that's likely the problem.  I'm on FreeBSD, so no google plugin for hangouts                                        [16:57]
<python476> emacs users are forever noobs, for emacs has no end
<Caine> Indeed. Been using it over a decade and I still don't know anything about it :)
<python476> It's so effin weird hearing someone reading irc over twitch. void**                                                      [16:58]
<cmack> jrm: well I'm connected with both
<cmack> jrm: it looks like the readme was deleted... I just recreated
<python476> Caine: you only "know" when you tap into modes, os interface and macros.
<cmack> jrm: visible?
<python476> the silence is overwhelming
<tered> how often does something like this happen?
<tered> like this conference I mean                                     [17:00]
<sachac> tered: Whenever people get around to organizing it. =) Previous one was in 2013, maybe the next one will be next year!
<tered> thanks :sachac
<jrm> cmack: I now see the readme                                       [17:01]
<sachac> Yay howard's friend!
<python476> emacsconf are coming 2x faster every iteration. EmacsConf #4 in Q3 2016
<sachac> python476: Oooooooh. <grin>                                    [17:02]
<sachac> tered: You'll be able to watch the previous recording on once the broadcast is done, I think, although that temporary video will be available for ~1 week. We'll work on getting a better archive up somewhere else.
<tered> That's awesome! I'd love to watch the previous talks.           [17:04]
<python476> kudos to you guys for setting this up with good services, twitch stream is clean                                             [17:05]
<tered> It looks like I'm going to miss the scholarly writing talk. Where can I post questions I want asked?
<sachac> tered: Post them here and samertm will read them out later. (If he misses it, I'll repeat the questions.)
<samertm> Yup :)
<samertm> python476: thanks! We spent a fair amount of time figuring out the setup haha
<tered> Awesome. Thanks.
<python476> samertm: you're welcome
<python476> it's 2015 and we still struggle with video setup            [17:08]
<jrm> cmack: You uploaded by just saving the file?
<python476> printers not supported
<samertm> Haha
<akkad> what org mode did he say converts to email?                     [17:09]
<sachac> org-mime
<akkad> mine mode? or mind mode?
<akkad> ahh
<sachac> from org-contrib+, I think                                     [17:10]
<sachac> no, org-plus-contrib
<akkad> very pretty org-mode...                                         [17:12]
<python476> org-mode is too emacsy, it will soon includes its own email client [17:14]
<momerath> could we see an example resulting email?                     [17:15]
<akkad> a basic org-mode emacs config template should really be part of any good starter kit.
<sachac> akkad: I think it might be more of making sure a basic Org Mode workflow tutorial is part of good starter tutorials... =)      [17:16]
<akkad> sachac your was a great intro. makes emacs bankruptcy much less painful
<sachac> akkad: Oh, you mean as a way to nudge people towards literate config? [17:17]
<akkad> exactly
<python476> akkad: depending on your needs, req-package makes vanilla elisp init almost literal
<python476> so tiny and lexical
<sachac> akkad: I used one of the Emacs starter kits as the basis for mine, too, just for the automatic user .org setup...
<python476> sachac: akkad is right, people react to defaults
<sachac> <grin> I'm already sold on the awesomeness of Org configs. I find them a lot more readable. =)                                   [17:18]
* tered slaps rrix around a bit with a large fishbot
<akkad> sachac can you type the word 'vacuum' fast?
<sachac> akkad: Hah, it turns out I have "uu" as a key-chord for undo... [17:19]
<akkad> your uu keychord binding got me so annoyed I went in to remove it, then realized the niceness of it. and have really made use of it
<sachac> akkad: So as long as I remember to add a tiny delay between the two u letters, I'm okay.
<sachac> akkad: I hardly ever need to type vacuum anyway, and after the first time, I can just use hippie-expand. ;)                         [17:20]
<tered> :sachac
<tered> My essay of questions didn't fit in the erc chat :P             [17:21]
<sachac> tered: Hah, remember that samertm is going to have to read stuff out. Q3 might be good for the scholarly writing talk later, and the other questions might be squeezed in around lightning talks or stuff like that.
<momerath> very cool @presenter!
<akkad> does elisp have a C-c C-c equivalent? instead of eval-last-sexp?
<cestdiego> omg                                                         [17:23]
<Caine> C-x C-e
<cestdiego> that python list though
<pdvyas> brace yourself, org-table is coming
<cestdiego> is this guy Howard? D:
<tered> Yes! I was just going to say the exact same thing. Q3 is for the scholarly writing talk. I'll try to make it back for the lightning talks, but not sure if I'll make it.
<sachac> akkad: Like eval-buffer? C-c C-c works with org src blocks that are Emacs Lisp. ielm is if you want things to happen after RET. You could bind something to eval-buffer if you're in an Emacs Lisp mode, if it's not bound already.                                        [17:24]
<Caine> I love seeing how other people use org-mode. Even if I know most of its features, everyone has their own workflow. It's so interesting.
<python476> the org mode is pretty original and very easy to follow     [17:25]
<akkad> sachac well looking for a slime-compile-defun equivalent that does not require me to jump to end of defun to run eval-last-sexp
<sachac> ... I have never used :post. That's cool.
<sachac> akkad: Oh! Like eval-defun? 
<tered> Is there an agenda for the lightning talks?                     [17:26]
<pdvyas> tered: It's in the topic
<sachac> tered: Cool! I'll prompt samertm if he forgets.
<akkad> C-M-x ahh right. C-c C-c seems more apropos.
<pdvyas> tered:
<sachac> akkad: You can always bind it. =)                              [17:27]
<akkad> true thanks
<pdvyas> tered: sorry, I am wrong
<imalison`> samertm: Can you make sure to remember to get a link to a copy of this org file
<samertm> imalison`: yup!                                               [17:28]
<cestdiego> what's the title of the current talk?
<sachac> imalison`: Howard has some notes on literate devops and other cool blog posts up at                         [17:29]
<imalison`> sachac: cool thanks for the link
<python476> hmm sirens are sirening
<sachac> samertm: Would you like to mute your mic?
<python476> emacsconf is too cool to be legal
<akkad> if this could just persist :P                                   [17:30]
<samertm> sachac: my mic is picking up Howard from the TV in the room, sorry!
<python476> sachac: thanks for that url
<sachac> Okay, no problem then! =)
<sachac> Sirens seem done anyway.                                       [17:31]
<python476> tell the speaker he was fine                                [17:32]
<sachac> We're still processing the awesomeness. <grin>
<jabroney> howardabrams: rocked my world!
<jabroney> samertm: How does this workflow translate to non-emacs users in his team?                                                        [17:33]
<python476> howardabrams: word
<akkad> add in aws mode and slack.el and you have a full chatops
<python476> really, emacsconf are very useful to see how people actually use software...
<cestdiego> hail nix
<imalison`> jabroney: +1. Thats a good question. He did talk about exporting to html for them
<python476> nix FTW^FTW
<chrisfreeman> Q: Are sessions maintained when piping through multiple servers?                                                 [17:34]
<sachac> python476: Exactly! =D Documentation is one thing, but it's another to see what people use it for and how.
<cestdiego> Howard I love demo-it :) I did a presentation on my research group that involved a lot of code and it was awesome to have emacs right there as a disposal :P
<python476> sachac: each one is different and use it in different context. I rarely associate OS/devops with org .. weird me
<akkad> Q: how do you share this for other devops to use?
<cestdiego> at my disposal*
<akkad> as this looks like a silo if you're part of a team              [17:36]
<jabroney> +1 for ssh's ControlMaster in general, especially tramp
<akkad> good q                                                          [17:37]
<python476> akkad: I think he doesn't share the org file, just the expanded results.                                                    [17:38]
<akkad> Q: what slack integration does he use for emacs?
<python476> I wouldn't like to introduce emacs AND org-mode to a team
<akkad> hard to recontribute
<sachac> I've heard from a couple of teams that use git to manage a repository of shared Org files for literate programming, so it's possible.
<sachac> But yeah, they're either all-Emacs or mostly-Emacs teams.      [17:39]
<akkad> you could use chatops to interface
<akkad> with the rest of the team
<akkad> almost :P                                                       [17:40]
<akkad> yes
<tered> I agree as well!                                                [17:41]
<tered> <clap clap>
* cestdiego *claps*
<python476> <fingerclap>
<Caine> great talk
<momerath> thanks Howard!!
<cestdiego> M-x clap
* offby1 stomps feet
* python476 flips IKEA desks
<ndrst> is someone taking notes in org?
<tered> is there an agenda for the lightning talks?
<kaushalmodi> would like to have lightning talks
<tered> lightning talks now please!
<tered> :)
<agumonkey> I keep forgetting I don't have my bouncer on u_u;           [17:43]
<Caine> ndrst In general yes. Right now, no.
<akkad> +1 wl
<imalison`> ndrst: I have really shitty fragmented notes                [17:44]
<ndrst> Caine: imalison` will they be available somewhere?
<imalison`> ndrst: I wasn't planning on publishing them. I'll send you then if you really want, but you're probably better going with what Caine did. I wasn't expecting anyone but myself to read mine      [17:45]
<pdvyas> samertm: Does that Nokia phone run Debian?
<tered> what talk is this again?                                        [17:46]
<ndrst> samertm: bigger font size
<ndrst> (:
<tered> sorry i zoned out
<sachac> tered: Lightning talk, Wanderlust
<ndrst> imalison`: if its ok for you I would love to read them. but I am fine with a now (:
<tered> Ah, nice                                                        [17:47]
<Caine> No plans to publish anything from my side either. The videos themselves will be made available later so you can always rewatch.
<tered> thanks sachac
<ndrst> Caine: fair enough. I usually prefer reading over watching videos (:
<sachac> I'll split up the recording into separate videos and post them to Youtube, so people can re-watch specific segments later on. Detailed notes might have to wait for someone to volunteer, though. ;)
<ndrst> \o/
<jabroney> I'd love to hear a talk on "must haves".  I've used emacs for 20 yrs and never used org mode, barely started using ido, helm and a lot of the new goodness.
<agumonkey> thanks sacha                                                [17:49]
<ndrst> mu4e > wanderlust :p
<akkad> different animals
<wgreenhouse> I like the point about "alternative universe of Japanese Elisp tools"
<samertm> tered: no agenda for lightning talks
<sachac> <laugh> alternative universe indeed...
<wgreenhouse> or as I call it "Antique Japanese Elisp"
<imalison`> ndrst: yep definitely better
<agumonkey> jabroney: lets upload our installed packages and compute a top 42
<ndrst> there is also notmuch but it doesn't work well with other non emacs clients
<imalison`> ndrst: I really only have even half way decent stuff for stream.el map put and the literate programming thing                  [17:50]
<ndrst> wanderlust was always quite a hassle to get to to run
<akkad> relative to gnus?
<momerath> i'd be interested to hear about wanderlust from a mu4e user; I gave up on mu4e for various half-remembered reasons a few years ago.
<akkad> mu4e is more like fetchmail right?
<ndrst> imalison`: don't worry I will just fast forward the videos      [17:51]
<pdvyas> anyone used notmuch for mail?
<ndrst> akkad: it is a mail indexer called mu with a nice interface mu4e for emacs
<wgreenhouse> akkad: mu4e is for indexing and searching over a local collection of maildirs
<akkad> oh I use it.
<akkad> just thought it was a bit more broken out than wl
<Caine> Email and webbrowsing are about the only things I haven't switched over to emacs...yet                                             [17:52]
<ndrst> the combination offlineimap and mu4e works great for me
<imalison`> akkad: yeah it definitely is
<jabroney> agumonkey: +1 - might also be useful to community to help measure package health
<akkad> do you send email with mu4e?
<imalison`> offlineimap is kind of slow in my experience
<momerath> do any emacs mail client users have to use google mail for work (and do that with emacs)?
<sachac> The question is about splitting mail into folders
<akkad> mu4e/offlineimap are my preference for gmail                    [17:53]
<ndrst> imalison`: indeed. but then I only fetch emails every 30 minutes and even read them every hour or less
<samertm> isync/mbsync is much, much faster than offlineimap
<momerath> akkad: do you use tags?
<akkad> ndrst: what do you use for sending?
<imalison`> samertm: yeah it did not seem very well doucmented when i last looked though
<akkad> momerath: like ctags?
<imalison`> samertm: how long did it take you to get it working
<momerath> gmail tags- they're represented in some weird way by google's imap endpoint                                                     [17:54]
<samertm> It took me an afternoon, the docs suck but it's fairly straightforward
<akkad> mh-mail was nice
<samertm> The speed gains were worth it
<ndrst> akkad: smtpmail from emacs                                      [17:55]
<akkad> any lightning talks on magit? or was it covered previously?
<akkad> ndrst: gotcha.
<sachac> akkad: Not yet covered, but suggested
<ndrst> momerath: tags in gmails are represented as emails in folders (duplicates) within imap
<momerath> oh? that sucks                                               [17:56]
<ndrst> so if you have 7 different tags on one email it will be 7 times the same email in different folders
<ndrst> which kinda sucks.
<sachac> gwene does RSS to news                                         [17:57]
<ndrst> I "resolved" this by leaving gmail and havin my own mail server.
<rpdillon> I try every couple of years to  switch to Emacs for email: wanderlust, offlineimap, gnus, mew.  As much as I love emacs,  I still can't stick with much work.
<akkad> just want github issues in emacs
<cestdiego> Anybody uses "sx" ?     [17:58]
<kaushalmodi> cestdiego: Yes, it's awesome!
<technomancy> rpdillon: tried mu4e? that's the one that made it stick for me.
<ndrst> anyone knows if there is an index of emacs meetups in the world? [17:59]
<rpdillon> technomancy: I haven't actually.  That's the only one I *haven't* tried.
<ndrst> anyone ever got mu4e and eww working for html emails?
<technomancy> ndrst: yeah, you can get it to render with shr            [18:00]
<tered> where is this conference happening btw?
<technomancy> (unless you mean composing mail, in which case, fie!)
<sachac> ndrst: That sounds like a page that either exists on or should be created. =)
<sachac> tered: San Francisco
<sachac> tered: GoodShop                                                [18:01]
<momerath> i would pay good money (patreon?) for someone to improve the situation wrt using common tech-company tools (google, atlassian, github, etc) from emacs
<kaushalmodi> Is anyone else seeing the slides clipped off
<sachac> Screen display is way off for me
<sachac> Yeah, clipping here
<ndrst> technomancy: no just removing the html and making sane text out of it, but quicker than html2text
<dee5> Same, only see part of the screen on twitch
<mbork> same here
<tered> @samertm the slides are a little off on twitch
* wgreenhouse ponders that the (or a) holy war within emacs is which MUA to
<kaushalmodi> samertm: also you need to hit the Allow button on that Chrome prompt
<ndrst> sachac: good idea. I just would need to find my wiki login      [18:02]
<ndrst> technomancy: any pointers on how to get it working? I always failed
<samertm> tered: the slides are off?
<kaushalmodi> samertm: yes
<samertm> kaushalmodi: I'll let him know
<momerath> just the upper-left is showing
<kaushalmodi> samertm: also there is a pending prompt to be hit
<tered> @samertm ask him to zoom out once                               [18:03]
<samertm> Okay now?
<dee5> it's off center
<mbork> not really
<mbork> same here
<tered> @samertm actually it's the screen sharing software i think
<kaushalmodi> samertm: still off center                                 [18:04]
<sachac> It's still off-center
<sachac> ... can you stop screen sharing and start screen sharing again, maybe?
<tered> @samertm
<samertm> Ok, let me figure something out
<sachac> samertm: Are you seeing the full slide on your laptop? Could it be twitch?
<samertm> I think it was my fault, is this better?
<tered> yes!
<kaushalmodi> yes!
<Caine> yes
<kaushalmodi> thanks
<mbork> much better now!!!
<samertm> Haha the resolution on my laptop changed :)
<Caine> no problem, thanks for fixing it.
<tered> haha awesome thanks for sorting that out @samertm               [18:06]
<samertm> Yup :D
<samertm> Also make sure to mention my name in questions so it's easier for me to see them                                                   [18:07]
<kaushalmodi> very well said: "we need tools that grow with us"
<kaushalmodi> samertm: I would like to see the org source code of those slides and his ox-reveal setup                                   [18:08]
<tered> @samertm Q. I'm curious about the speakers workflow while building this presentation. Did he have the browser open on the side while editing in emacs? Is there a place to set up live reveal?       [18:09]
<tered> I love using git for scientific papers
<samertm> kaushalmodi, tered got your questions
<kaushalmodi> tered: He used ox-reveal package. You write the slides in plain org and then export to ox-reveal html using the same C-c C-e interface                                                 [18:10]
<tered> IF only I could get other collaborators on board
<mbork> tered: I know that pain...
<Caine> I always did papers with Emacs, auctex and git. Every sentence on its own line to easily diff and merge changes from other authors.
<ndrst> samertm:              [18:11]
<ndrst> Caine: add patdiff to that combination.
<kaushalmodi> I wish there were such groups in North Carolina, US
<samertm> ndrst: good idea, we should add emacs NYC and emacs SF to this! [18:12]
<tered> Denver too!
<ndrst> go ahead people and add your meetup
<mbork> ndrst: and latexdiff
<ndrst> yess git-latexdiff <3
<akkad> There is an atlassian mode
<ndrst> although the one I used failed with ??mlauts
<sachac> ndrst: Yay, glad it's there! Maybe we can mention it out loud later so that people listening to the recording get prompted to go add theirs (or find a meetup close to them =) )                    [18:13]
<agumonkey> reproducibility is trendy
<agumonkey> nix helps
<agumonkey> debian goes even further                  [18:14]
<kaushalmodi> It's sad that many conferences still required paper submissions in Word
<kaushalmodi> They don't even accept latex
<Caine> It's even worse in commercial companies :(
<tali713> kaushalmodi: that's unfortunate, sure, I can just convert by moving through googledocs, but that's still unfortunate.             [18:15]
<wgreenhouse> kaushalmodi: fortunately you can make your .docx in org
<jabroney> I just tried ob-ipython today instead of ein2 - worked well with jupyter notebook.
<wgreenhouse> either ox-odt -> open in word, convert, or org -> pandoc -> docx
<ndrst> sachac: just added it, and I have the feeling that there are way more outa there that we are not aware of yet
<kaushalmodi> wgreenhouse: I tried that but the conferences have strict guidelines about fonts, margins etc
<tali713> wgreenhouse: really, we can export to docx now?
<kaushalmodi> haven't yet figured out how to configure that in ox-odt
<tali713> oh, nevermind, I knew about that.
<sachac> There's pandoc for conversion, too.
<wgreenhouse> tali713: not directly. indirectly via pandoc or via odt and then opening in word                                           [18:16]
<wgreenhouse> <3 pandoc
<tered> holy! i never knew about this
<sachac> ndrst: Awesome, hope lots of people add to it.
<tered> about babel
<akkad> tered: it's fun to have registered programmed to code blocks and you can execute stuff in a couple of key strokes. fun to wip out when someone comes by asking you to do something                     [18:17]
<wgreenhouse> Pandoc!
<tered> pdf in emacs is really slow for me. Do other people use pdf in emacs?
<kaushalmodi> wgreenhouse: sachac: the guidelines are strict down to the font and size of regular text, font and size for code blocks, etc
<kaushalmodi> tered: almost daily
<akkad> doc-mode?
<wgreenhouse> kaushalmodi: yeah, that part involves manual labor
<kaushalmodi> tered: have you tried pdf-tools?
<tered> no i haven't!
<wgreenhouse> tered: pdf-tools is a significant improvement over the builtin doc-view-mode                                             [18:18]
<wgreenhouse> uses ipc to a libpoppler-based server
<wgreenhouse> so rendering is async and fast
<tered> thanks kaushalmodi i'll try it tonight
<tali713> tered: oh, babel is absolutely wonderful. you can write quick papers in org without touching latex (though, you may wish to use auctex anyways, for anything fancy)
<akkad> wgreenhouse: nice
<kaushalmodi> tered: pdf-tools makes pdf reading, searching so convenient that I have bound certain pdf files to my quick launch hydra
<tered> @tali713 you write papers using babel?
<tered> okay I need to look into hydra as well, I remember you mentioned it during one of sacha's google hangouts                           [18:19]
<tali713> tered: actually, I used to translate my mothers dissertation to publishable form.  I finished in actual latex, but it made 90% a breeze.
<tered> I use markdown for my papers and it is great                    [18:20]
<wgreenhouse> kaushalmodi: I feel your pain; part of the problem is that word "templates" aren't really templates at all
<wgreenhouse> so they can't be cleanly applied like latex styles
<tali713> tered: sure, same basic idea. org has a lot going for it though, like the whole babel integration makes sure that you don't accidentally include a stale run as an embeded table.  which if you have seen an average persons workflow, is quite easy to do.   [18:22]
<tered> haha @tali713 I'm definitely moving from markdown to org        [18:23]
<tered> I used vim when I started writing this particular paper
<samertm> Collecting questions, ircers
<kaushalmodi> Here is a question I posted to orgmode list some time back: It is stil on my list to figure out how to fine tune the org->odt exports
<tered> @samertm Can the speaker repeat the question
<akkad> wgreenhouse: what are the dependencies on the system side for pdf-tools?
<sachac> <grin> I like how this presentation was obviously updated very recently.
<akkad> ahh epdfinfo                                                    [18:24]
<wgreenhouse> sachac: incremental, version-controlled writing, as encouraged by org and emacs!
<tered> @samertm Did the speaker get markdown mode and equations to display at the same time?
<parsnip> kaushalmodi: thanks for hydra tip, i think it's time to try this :)
<wgreenhouse> akkad: libpoppler-dev (or whatever your system calls the build source and headers for libpoppler)                        [18:25]
<wgreenhouse> and the usual C compilation dependencies
<kaushalmodi> parsnip: sure thing. Once you start using hydras, you will find places to use them
<akkad> wgreenhouse: ty
<ndrst> btw anyone has a solution for using org-mode and git to autocommit changes?
<diminishedprime> ndrst: I was just thinking about this the other day. I couldn't think of a way to fix unavoidable collisions. [18:28]
<wgreenhouse> ndrst: you might like git-wip, which can be hooked to run on save. magit also has an implementation of that
<wgreenhouse> those avoid the collision problem by putting the "work-in-progress" commits on another, "hidden" branch
<wgreenhouse> without switching to that branch
<diminishedprime> wgreenhouse: Interesting.
<wgreenhouse> so you have the moral equivalent of autosave inside your git
<ndrst> wgreenhouse: I never got git-wip running. also I found a few different implementations                                                 [18:29]
<mbork> ndrst: also, org has hooks to run on e.g. clocking out or changing the todo state
<pdvyas> kaushalmodi:
<kaushalmodi> pdvyas: yup saw that on the last slide
<wgreenhouse> ndrst: you might have luck with the magit version
<wgreenhouse> i.e. (magit-wip-after-save-mode 1) in >= 2.x
<ndrst> wgreenhouse: uh that looks nice. I will check it out            [18:30]
<mbork> sirens!
<tered> ipython notebook vs babel ?                                     [18:31]
<tered> Oh my god i would love to see tmux demo!
<owardabramsh> By the way, my Literate Devops essay is here:
<mbork> people, would you like a lightning talk on Calc?
<diminishedprime> mbork: I would.
<sachac> mbork: You're still awake! =D
<wgreenhouse> mbork: that'd be really cool
<kaushalmodi> mbork: yes
<owardabramsh> Oh yeah, calc is cool.
<sachac> I would love a lightning talk on Calc.                         [18:32]
<ndrst> that is even the sirens make it quite dramatic
<Caine> me too
<tered> me too!
<owardabramsh> Also, the Emacs code used to make my demonstration is Find it on MELPA: demo-it
<mbork> great, I guess I could ad-lib one (but not within the next 10 minutes, I have to make myself some tea!)
<owardabramsh> I will upload my complete demonstration to Git repo soon. I’ll announce it on my web site:
<sachac> samertm: mbork can do a lightning talk on Calc after making some tea. =)
<kaushalmodi> owardabramsh: what happened to your nickname?
<owardabramsh> Having a lot of technical difficulties today.
<sachac> Yay people in-person! <applause>
* owardabramsh breathes a heavy sigh, and opens a beer.
<sachac> (and yay remote people!)
<Caine> aw man... 3:33 am, getting sleepy here :(
<wgreenhouse> tali713: do you have native ipv6 at home? :)
<owardabramsh> Oh, I can get my old nick back.
<egh`> slides from my talk:                 [18:34]
<egh`> thanks so much for listening!
<samertm> ssh
<kaushalmodi> egh`: great talk, thanks! Do you also have your org-mode and ox-reveal config shared somewhere?
<choki> damn i sleeped. is the conf vid already up?
<sachac> choki: Still streaming
<choki> oh                                                              [18:35]
<samertm> Sign up on the forum:
<choki> it is 3 at night here xD
<egh`> kaushalmodi:
<egh`> I just got started with ox-reveal, the setup is plain vanilla
<kaushalmodi> egh`: thanks!                                             [18:36]
<choki> ox reveal is for orgmode?
<ndrst> that escalated quickly
<egh`> choki: yeah! it is pretty great
<egh`> MELPA: ox-reveal
<akkad> always paste the RO link
<choki> people like fancy stuff today xD
<tali713> wgreenhouse: I don't know.
<tered> @samertm Has the speaker used this with other colleagues efficiently? [18:37]
<tali713> wgreenhouse: I actually don't remember whether I set it up on this machine with a tunnel, or if I have it natively now.  I think the latter.
<samertm> ssh                 [18:38]
<gnusosa> what scalated quickly D:?
<tered> it asks for a password                                          [18:39]
<sachac> gnusosa: Attempted pair programming with tmate and anonymous people =)
<samertm> tered: got the q
<momerath> I've used screen -x with pretty efficiently with one colleague.  We edited lisp, c++ and lua; lisp was the least frustrating by far (paredit).  We did it in the same room sometimes and remotely sometimes; in the room was much more efficient (and better than passing keyboard control back and forth)                     [18:40]
<ndrst> hmmm `package.el` uses --insecure when used with https, how useless ):
<wgreenhouse> ndrst: easy to correct if you wish. I use a setup like [18:41]
<samertm> Good question tered
<choki> i hope there is a big org file then to download with all the notes from sachac :D
<momerath> we tried sharing an emacs session, but changed to each having our own in different screen windows, and got used to not frustrating each other too much with file locks.
<sachac> mbork: Have you sorted out your tea? =)
<wgreenhouse> ndrst: and emacs25 has a "network security manager" which can choose between pinning and normal cert checking           [18:42]
<akkad> Vger started as an org-file
<ndrst> wgreenhouse: thank you again.
<akkad> great dmeo
<tered> @samertm is this cross platform?
<sachac> choki: If you're lucky, I might actually be diligent enough to make pages with the embedded videos and the relevant snippets from the IRC chat and links, but we'll see. <laugh> It'll probably be in a wiki or git respository or something
<akkad> Supergenpass demo
<gnusosa> oh no I missed a talk by sufyan
<gnusosa> :()
<sachac> samertm: calc talk from mbork! =)
<agumonkey> i love the recursive stream                                 [18:43]
<agumonkey> drostemacs
<sachac> choki: so people can add more notes
<ndrst> sachac feel free to ping me if you need some help with this
<tered> @sachac if you do it on git or gh-pages I'd love to help/contribute
<samertm> mbork: can you connect to jitsi meet after this talk?
<samertm> sachac: do you just want to announce something or does mbork want to talk today?
<sachac> samertm: mbork is probably ready to talk today (after tea)     [18:45]
<samertm> Kk
<samertm> I'll wait for them to ping me on irc
<egh`> also:           [18:47]
<kaushalmodi> I tend to save almost every minute or so; this will create so many commits!
<egh`> yep
<sachac> magit has a nice interface for squashing commits               [18:48]
<kaushalmodi> haven't looked into that package, but may be it has a frequency limit.. like every 10 mins, etc
<egh`> my notes dir: git log |grep ^commit | wc -l
<egh`> 16500
<wgreenhouse> samertm: is there a public repo for replicate.el? looks like all of arthur gleckler's gists are private
<wgreenhouse> it's almost short enough that I could transcribe it by hand off-screen, which is cool :)
<kaushalmodi> wgreenhouse: the link to that gist was pasted above       [18:49]
<mbork> ok, I guess I'm ready for a 5-10 minutes demo of Calc
<mbork> (of course, just selected features)
<egh`> +1 calc
<mbork> should I got to
<wgreenhouse> oh, sorry, disregard samertm and arthurgleckler
<sachac> mbork: Yup
<wgreenhouse> arthurgleckler: thanks :)
<egh`> si not se
<mbork> ok, I'm there                                                   [18:50]
<sachac> samertm: Great! mbork is good to go
<wgreenhouse> samertm: sorry sorry :)                                   [18:51]
<akkad> tried and failed calc
<samertm> wgreenhouse: :)                                               [18:52]
<jabroney> arthurgleckler: Thx for sharing - useful to see your "hack", especially the `after-save-hook`
<choki> sachac: lovely <3 or even better create some sketches out of it!! ^__^
<tered> @mbork your mike isn't very loud, if you can speak louder or slower that would be great                                             [18:53]
<offby1> I didn't know calc did fractions!  (Not that it surprises me; it does everything)
<sachac> choki: I'll need to re-watch everything to do that, since I've been in laptop mode instead of tablet mode all day so that I can participate on IRC. =) Some time over the next few weeks, perhaps!
<akkad> what was the factorial operator he used?                        [18:54]
<dfd> how is emacsconf going?
<sachac> akkad: !
<tered> @dfd it's going great
<akkad> did not see it in his font
<sachac> Carsten Dominik mentioned that he likes Calc for unit conversion, too.
<kaushalmodi> "a f" is awesome! :)
<sachac> kaushalmodi: It can solve algebraic equations for you, too.    [18:57]
<wgreenhouse> wow, I just did C-x * g with an ERC timestamp selected, and calc recognized it as a time
<sachac> Ledger is great for tracking finances. =)
<diminishedprime> what is the best way to view the stream?              [19:00]
<tered> twitch
<kaushalmodi> diminishedprime:
<diminishedprime> kaushalmodi: thanks.
<sachac> diminishedprime: videos will be available there for about a week, and then we'll put up an archive elsewhere
<egh> samertm: can Marcin share quick-calc? I also use ledger+calc      [19:01]
<kaushalmodi> egh: fast-calc
<akkad> wow
<akkad> stats stuff is nice.
<egh> kaushalmodi: thanks! it seems to be online                              [19:02]
<kaushalmodi> egh: quick-calc is inbuilt and that's awesome too
<akkad> any org integration?
<sachac> Calc is crazy.
<kaushalmodi> egh: thanks
<sachac> akkad: Yup, you can use calc in an org table spreadsheet formula, even.
<akkad> makes bc(1) look like a four function calculator
<egh> kaushalmodi: thank you!
<akkad> now I just need pretty charts
<offby1> wgreenhouse: I just tried it; "Syntax error" ;-(
<wgreenhouse> offby1:  hm                                               [19:03]
<akkad> mbork: thanks
<sachac> There's display-battery-mode, by the way.
<sachac> I really like having an org file with babel blocks that run ledger commands. That way, I can easily check a bunch of different reports.
<offby1> wgreenhouse: I assume there's 1,000,000 ways to format and render those timestamps
<wgreenhouse> akkad: it has gnuplot integration, (info "(calc) Graphics") [19:04]
<wgreenhouse> offby1: yeah, I just got lucky
<sachac> You could probably do org-capture with ledger - open the receipt, then org-capture a note that has an automatic comment with the filename of the scanned receipt
<egh> in my `org-capture-templates':("f" "ledger Finance entries")      [19:05]
<egh>         ("fc" "Cash" plain (file ,(format-time-string "~/c/finances/%Y.lgr"))
<egh>          "%(format-time-string \"%Y/%m/%d\" (org-time-string-to-time (org-read-date))) * %^{Payee}
<egh>   Expenses:Erik:Cash
<sachac> <grin> I need to make a ledger with fake numbers so that I can demo it.
<egh>   Expenses:%^{Account}  $%^{Amount}"
<egh>          :empty-lines 1)
<egh> I use that to track purchases made in cash                        [19:06]
<pdvyas> sachac: Awesome!
<akkad> wgreenhouse: pretty :P
<pdvyas> egh: Thanks! (from the guy in front)
<sachac> Yay magit!                                                     [19:07]
<akkad> Q: Magit, how to create PRs, and how can you "git fetch -a && git reset --hard origin/master" to reset to a prestine state
<mbork> egh: I decided to dive headfirst: I track all my (and my wife's) money with ledger;-)
<sachac> magit-gh-pulls package?
<akkad> sachac: never got the pr part working                           [19:08]
<sachac> mbork: My husband and I both track with ledger. He's responsible for his own file, though. =) (And he uses vim!)
<mbork> sachac: my wife is not technical enough, and she's happy to put this burden on me;-)
<akkad> "quiet on the set"
<egh> akkad: sorry :(
<momerath> could you raise the volume/move the mic?
<egh> mbork: ledger+calc is a great combo
<akkad> ty
<mbork> egh: yep                                                        [19:10]
<egh> here is something I wrote about tracking a budget with org-mode+ledger
<samertm> momerath: yup
<pdvyas> akkad pr: maybe you just call `hub pull-request`
<mbork> egh: thanks, I'll look at this
<sachac> I love the way magit lets you stage parts of your changes by using regions.
<tered> @samertm Q: is there a advanced git log inside magit? that shows other branches etc
<amitp> I love magit
<sachac> looks like lb shows all branches                               [19:11]
<mbork> or la
<akkad> wgreenhouse: +1 pdf-tools very nice integration
<ryouma> tered: reflog and regular log esp --all
<wgreenhouse> akkad: it can fill forms supposeably, too
<wgreenhouse> akkad: though I haven't had to do that yet
<akkad> game changer :P
<mbork> also, instead of TAB you can press digits 1-4
<ryouma> wgreenhouse: it recognizes boxes?
<ryouma> that is a game changer                                         [19:13]
<egh> akkad: you could do your taxes in emacs if you could fill out the IRS PDF forms from emacs
<mbork> magit tip: on my screen this helps a lot:
<mbork> (eval-after-load 'diff-mode '(set-face-background 'diff-refine-added "#22ff22")) (eval-after-load 'diff-mode '(set-face-background 'diff-refine-removed "#ff6666"))
<kaushalmodi> M-2 collapses everything; I use that a lot
<kaushalmodi> and M-4 expands everything
<mbork> kaushalmodi: or just 2 or 4 ;-)
<akkad> very fast pdf rendering. <3
<kaushalmodi> mbork: 2 and 4 will collapse/expand stuff only under the point [19:14]
* ryouma realizes he is butting in on a conversation among physical attendees
<mbork> oops, sorry, I was at bop;-)
<mbork> *bob
<wgreenhouse> ryouma: nah, but it can fill forms if the pdf author made forms
<wgreenhouse> that's a pdf file format feature, which a lot of simpler viewers ignore                                                    [19:15]
<ryouma> can you expand all of unsaved and hide all of saved and vice versa in a single keystroke?
<ryouma> wgreenhouse: so official forms probably don't have them?
<akkad> pdf-view-fit-page-to-window ih man
* egh so happy to learn about 1,2,3,4 & M-{1,2,3,4} in magit            [19:16]
<kaushalmodi> ryouma: what do you mean by saved?
<wgreenhouse> ryouma: official forms often do, pretty much nobody else does
<ryouma> kaushalmodi: staged
<egh> ryouma: IRS tax forms are PDF forms
<owardabramsh> The 's' key is magit is great. I also use the 'k' key to delete stuff I accidentally changed and saved.
<pdvyas> ryouma: Yes, they are in different sections
<akkad> Q: can you use magit without creating merge-commits?
* egh still does his taxes on paper
<mbork> egh: me too                                                     [19:17]
<technomancy> ndrst:
<egh> mbork: in the US we have to pay for online tax submittal :( But I'd probably do it that way in any case                               [19:18]
<akkad> pdftools even lets you select text
<wgreenhouse> akkad: yep. and occur works
<mbork> egh: in Poland it's free, but I had some problems with the pdfs [19:19]
<ryouma> egh: i presumed wgreenhouse was referring to filling out forms that you then print
<ryouma> but perhaps he meant electronic changes?
<mbork> (I had some kind of atypical situation, which was not supported by the official form)
<egh> ryouma: yes, that's how I do my taxes. fill out the PDF & then print it out
<mbork> also, rebasing in magit is, well, close to magic
<egh> mbork: the tax prep industry is huge & loves to make money off submitting taxes                                                  [19:20]
<mbork> will the lightning talks be available, too?
<egh> +1 rebase in magit
<mbork> egh: yes, that's true...
<samertm> mbork: yup
<mbork> cool
<wgreenhouse> capital B is bisect here                                  [19:21]
<kaushalmodi> ryouma: I use 'j s' to jump to staged section and then M-2 to hide all staged; similarly 'j u M-4' to jump to unstaged files and expand all
<ryouma> kaushalmodi: great.  nice to know a future version has a j command. [19:22]
<kaushalmodi> ryouma: in this case though 'j s 2' and 'j u 4' will also work
<mbork> kaushalmodi: wat!? I didn't know about j s and j u, you just saved a lot of my time!!! Thx!
<momerath> I'd like to get in on a dinner group (I'm not there, but I'm nearby); in particular, I'd love to talk to people with good Clojure workflows, but I'll buy the first round for any of you fine folks.                                                       [19:23]
<sachac> It's been a long and awesome day! =D
<diminishedprime> the go thing sounds interesting.
<mbork> sachac: not really a "day", it's 4:23am here;-)
<mbork> but awesome, yes, definitely!                                   [19:24]
<Caine> It's been a 22 hour day. Last hours of which were all worth it :)
<mbork> thank you all for this conference!
<momerath> indeed, huge thanks to the organizers!!!
<Caine> Great conference. Big thanks to all organizers and presenters!
<egh> Yes indeed, thank you organizers!
<kaushalmodi> thanks all! This was really awesome!                      [19:25]
<mbork> kaushalmodi: thx!!!
<kaushalmodi> mbork: happy to share :)
<sachac> mbork: Hehehe... Thank you for your staying-up power! I should go to sleep in a bit, too, so that I can wake up in time to do the hangout with wasamasa tomorrow morning my time. ( [19:26]
<momerath> maybe I should go down there to find a dinner group? would it be hard to get in at this point?
<mbork> thanks to you, sachac, and samertm!
<ryouma> are you done outgribing?  it is long past brillig.             [19:27]
<sachac> momerath: Maybe samertm can see if folks are interested in getting together for dinner and send you the details =)
<samertm> momerath: can you get here in 15 minutes?
<momerath> yep
<momerath> if i leave in a couple minutes                               [19:28]
<samertm> Cool :)
<samertm> Thanks so much for the help sachac !!!
<jabroney> samertm: Can you have him show screen on twitch?             [19:29]
<sachac> samertm: We're seeing the webcam video at the moment, by the way, not the Jitsi. That's cool, although the image is mirrored so the text is a little hard to read. =) I'll try to flip it in postproduction.
<jabroney> Thank you everyone, especially sachac and samertm!
<samertm> Screensharing didn't work for this one                        [19:30]
<sachac> Okay! Maybe he can send a few screenshots along later. =)
<momerath> samertm: omw- should I just meet you outside?
<kaushalmodi> I missed the speaker's name                               [19:31]
<samertm> momerath: come up to the 9th floor
<sachac> <laugh> I've missed all the speaker names for the lightning talks, so I'm hoping either samertm has been paying attention or people will step up and edit the notes after. =)
<kaushalmodi> I was curious if he is sigma or defunkt:                        [19:32]
<dee5> He is sigma I believe, he also wrote:
<kaushalmodi> dee5: correct, I derived that from this: :)
<mbork> btw, I have one more question. What should I do so that my blog feed is added to Planet Emacsen?
<sachac> mbork: Talk to hober (#emacs or Twitter)                       [19:34]
<mbork> ok
<mbork> thx
<sachac> I hope it grabs the screen! =)
<sanityinc> Wasn't Christian Neukirchen the original author of gist.el? Chris Wanstrath was certainly a contributor, though. That's what the file comments indicate.
<cestdiego> anyone using edebug and/or ert? do you know if they are supposed to be used together? any good tutorials? I'm reading the manual but I'd appreciate some tutorials                           [19:37]
<sachac> cestdiego: Yeah, ert for automated testing and edebug for figuring out exactly why your test is failing seems like a good combination.
<jabroney> What was that python project he mentioned?
<sanityinc> elpy                                                        [19:38]
<sachac> cestdiego: I skip the edebug for the stuff that already works, of course. 
<kaushalmodi> sanityinc: this is the first commit of gist.el:
<cestdiego> sachac: oh that's cool... edebug seems to be very useful, I just debugged stuff by echoing variables ;_; I guess I'm still a rookie [19:39]
<sanityinc> kaushalmodi: That's gist.rb, not gist.el :-)
<kaushalmodi> sanityinc: ah, my bad
<sachac> cestdiego: Oh! Yeah, edebug-defun, then run your function (or whatever calls it). SPC to step through, i to step in, o to step out, e to eval expressions.
<kaushalmodi> cestdiego: Check out and the 2nd part too                                      [19:40]
<mbork> also, edebug's breakpoints can be very useful!
<sachac> cestdiego: If you run into macros, edebug can sometimes handle them and sometimes can't, so macrostep might be helpful.
<sachac> mbork: yeah! I often use "h" to jump to a specific position, too. [19:41]
<mbork> AFAIK, edebugging macros requires some "declare" invocations.
<mbork> [19:42]
<cestdiego> oh *.* thank you guys so many resources
<mbork> I sometimes use conditional breakpoints, too
<cestdiego> I wasn't wrong about the emacs community
<mbork> :-)
<cestdiego> oh I didn't read the Macros instrumentation. I was reading edebug in te manual, then opened the link for instrumentation and the instrumentation of macros was as another link there...but my link-depth while reading manual is 1 so I avoided it xD I don't wan't to waste hours and hours as I did in wikipedia        [19:44]
<sachac> you can ignore the part about instrumenting macros, since you're probably not at the point of writing macros that you want to edebug anyway. =)
<mbork> depth-first search of the internet, huh? ;-)
<sachac> cestdiego: I think John Wiegley talked about edebug in one of our videos...
<cestdiego> mbork: indeed. It wasn't very effective :(
<cestdiego> sachac: any temptative date when the videos are gonna be up? tomorrow maybe?
<cestdiego> next week perhaps
<sachac> cestdiego: The twitch archive will likely be up very quickly (since it's automatic!), but the more long-term archives might take a while since we have to figure out the workflow and do the editing and stuff.
<sachac> cestdiego: But you can check tomorrow and if we're lucky, you'll be able to see the past broadcast from there. [19:46]
<cestdiego> oh that's awesome :) today's streamming turned out to be pretty smooth                                                      [19:47]
<sachac> cestdiego: has Emacs Lisp development tips from John Wiegley. Might cover more advanced ground, but good for inspiration. =)
<cestdiego> thanks :D                                                   [19:48]
<tered> what is the current topic again btw? i just stepped in
<sachac> tered: Go setup (subtopic: refactoring)
<tered> thanks sachac                                                   [19:49]
<mbork> re: elisp coding, definitely check out lispy.el!                [19:50]
<cestdiego> did sarem talk about how to use jitsi+twitch for conferences? :P
<sachac> edebug is very useful. =)
<samertm> cestdiego: very briefly :)                                    [19:51]
<sachac> cestdiego: Yes, after the Emacs meetup talk
<tered> @samertm I'd love to hear about people's workflow. Especially if it involves terminal.
<sachac> tered: Come to (or help organize) an Emacs Hangout sometime! =)
<samertm> tered: we're about wrapped up here :) sounds like a good idea for sachac 's video hangouts
<tered> nooooooooooooooooo                                              [19:53]
<tered> jk :)
<tered> I'd love to join a hangout sometime!
<HowardTheGeek> Bye! Been a great day!
<mbork> thanks, people! that was great!
<sachac> tered: has details
<kaushalmodi> Signing off, thanks all. This was a great conference. I could not attend 100% of it but looking forward to the recorded sessions
<tered> bye guys!
<danielmai> Bye, thanks everyone!
<sachac> Bye in-person people!
<tered> it was great!
<chrisfreeman> THANKS!                                                  [19:54]

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